MInTheGap

Standing in the Gap in a Society that's Warring with God.

Giving Away the Bride

October 7th, 2006 Visited 4861 times, 2 so far today
This entry is part 7 of 9 in the series A Father's Responsibility

Since I do not have any daughters (yet) I do not have this responsibility to contend with.  And yet I’m told that it’s one of the hardest things a father has to do.

If her father utterly refuse to give her unto him, he shall pay money according to the dowry of virgins. – Exodus 22:17

Now, I’m not talking about the fact that I may have to owe a dowry, since we are not working under a biblical betrothal arrangement.  What I am sensing here is a responsibility that father’s have to verify that the man is the one God has for our child.  Although it is important to make sure our sons have the right girl, it is of particular importance in the case of our daughters because we are transferring our leadership of a woman to another man– a man that she should be submissive to, that she should trust for leadership.

If we are to encourage our children to live godly lives, we with experience and knowledge must use judgement and prayer to make sure that we give good advice to our daughters all along the way.  If we are training them to love and respect their spouse from when they are a child, we must find a man that is worthy of that level of respect and love.

Too often, I believe, parents are not as involved in the emotional couplings of their children as they should be, and that results in pairings and attachments to strengthen to the point that the child has to choose between us and him.  We need to be looking ahead as the first seeds of interest are expressed so that we can be informative about what we see, and helping her to know whether a given guy is the right man for her.

I’m sure that if/when I get a daughter I’ll be tempted to go to a courtship style pairing instead of allowing dating in my house!  But whatever the method, we need to be active earlier in the relationships instead of waiting until it is too late.

The act of the father of the bride giving the woman’s hand in marriage is more than a symbol– it’s something that God has ordained as the father’s responsibility– something that He will hold us accountable for!

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  • Margaret says on: July 14, 2007 at 2:24 pm

     

    Surely THIS tradition is the most misunderstood of all. The basis is the Book of Genesis where God (the Heavenly Father) gave away Eve, a virgin, to become wife to her husband (Adam). The reader here quoted Ex22:17, but he left out the previous verse that most men today don’t like to hear. “If a young man lie with a maid, he shall surely endow her to be his wife,” then, depending on her Father’s opinion. In this case, the two young people (both virgins) gave away their virginity to each other before they were married. God’s Eternal Spiritual Law says, this one act means it is to be a SURE THING that they get married. But, God gives His Authority of the Law over to the girl’s Father. See Numbers 30. This chapter states the Statute of the Law between a Father and his daughter while she is IN his house as a youth.

    A reading of the story of Laban and Jacob, Leah and Rachel, will show you that when Jacob woke up the next morning, not having looked at the face or hearing the voice of the one he wed the day before, he said to his Father-in-law, “What have you done to me?” Not, “This is NOT the WOMAN I MARRIED! Where is she, and WHO is this woman? She’s not the one I worked for like you promise!” No. Jacob knew the Law, it was this formula: virgin woman virgin man Father’s approval of the man as husband SEX = done deal, a Marriage made in Heaven by God, for LIFE! Then followed the adulterous marriage of Jacob to Rachel. Oh that Jacob had cared about his wife on their wedding night and looked at her face! This passage also proves that wedding VOWS are not a requirement for God to bind a marriage. Marriage is BOUND by Fatherly approval of 2 virgins sex between them “consummating” the marriage. All words of Christ will support this fact. Today, in the 21st Century, this info has been lost to the minds of people, but the words are STILL in The Book!

  • MInTheGap says on: July 14, 2007 at 10:09 pm

     

    Not disputing what you are saying, but if it is simply two virgins having sex what does that say about the woman that is raped? Is she then married to the rapist?

    My response would be that there has to be some degree of consensual-ism (if I may be free to coin a term) such that both willingly joined in a union.

    Let me go further to clarify what you are saying: The first act of consensual sex married you to the person. Any subsequent acts of sex are adultery. Is that correct?

    What part in here do the vows play? And what about God permitting divorce for the case of adultery because of the hardened hearts of the Israelites?

  • Margaret says on: July 15, 2007 at 6:59 pm

     

    In reply to MInTheGap:

    I can only quote Scripture and the Law, not my opinion. Here is the law:
    Deut 22:28-29 “If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; 29 Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel’s father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days.”KJV

    The above is a case of rape: where there was not “consensual-ism”. However, this is at the end of a 29-verse chapter on many aspects of this Law, so that one has to ALSO consider the Law of a Father and his daughter, while a youth in his house.

    Here is the Law about that: (ALL CAPS MY emphasis)
    Num 30:1-5 “This is the thing which the LORD hath commanded.
    2 If a man vow a vow unto the LORD, or swear an oath to bind his soul with a bond; he shall not break his word, he shall do according to all that proceedeth out of his mouth.
    3 If a WOMAN also vow a vow unto the LORD, and bind herself by a bond, BEING IN HER YOUTH IN HER FATHER’S HOUSE, 4 And her father hear her vow, and her bond wherewith she hath bound her soul, and her father shall HOLD HIS PEACE at her: then all her vows shall stand, and every bond wherewith she hath bound her soul shall stand.
    5 But if her father DISALLOW her in the day that he heareth; not any of her vows, or of her bonds wherewith she hath bound her soul, shall stand: and the LORD shall forgive her, because HER FATHER DISALLOWED her.”

    and…

    Num 30:16-31:1 “These are THE STATUTES, which the LORD commanded Moses, between a man and his wife, between the FATHER AND HIS DAUGHTER, being yet in her youth in her father’s house.”KJV

    So here is how I read this Law in the questionable case:
    The sex ACT is not what “marries” person to person. In the case of RAPE, the Father UPON FINDING OUT about his DAUGHTER has to make a JUDGMENT about that young man that raped her. It says “if they be found”. If the FATHER DOESN’T WANT that man as son-in-law, as a husband for his daughter, he hasn’t HELD HIS PEACE. He DISALLOWS a marriage between the two. Sex HAS occured. The judgment call is the FATHER’S still! (That is verified under the statute of Fathers and their daughters.) If they’re “found”, yeah, WHAT father would WANT a son-in-law rapist?! If they are NOT found, then that SECRET still remains and has to be faced at some point when that young woman meets the man of her dreams (also a virgin man) and if she tells him she is a “virgin” and is not, and that 2nd man complains, the Law of Deut. 22:13-21 may take effect. This was the subject in question for Joseph in the case of Mary, the Mother of Jesus. Joseph didn’t want a public spectacle made of her, so he proposed to put her “away” quietly.

    If the rape is never found out, then God still knows it happened. The young man that raped her, has a judgment to DO that is still over his head. Let’s imagine that this rape is not known ever, and the woman goes on the marry a virgin man in the future. Her Father ALLOWED her to marry a virgin man, and that Father’s RIGHT of allowance DISQUALIFIED every previous man (known or not) that had sex with this young woman. This is by the God-given Authority of the woman’s FATHER! Yay! God loves authority, and this is a Good Law. But IF the rape becomes KNOWN, then there must be a decision on the part of the Father. God will not let a RAPIST DECIDE over the Authority given a Father by God. No way! God has given up His OWN Authority to every Father of every daughter in her Father’s house! God does NOT require the girl’s Father to have to “eat” this man’s indiscretion and HAVE TO GIVE HIS DAUGHTER to him just because he raped her. No. He can always DISALLOW the MARRIAGE. But, if the young woman doesn’t HAVE A FATHER….it is so sad. They HAVE to MARRY. That is the Law. There is simply NO FATHER to consult. The young woman is BOUND by being in the wrong place at the wrong time, and in Israel, young woman under the Law of God were supposed to be chaste in dress, escorted in public places, etc., so there would be no such RAPE occuring to be later dealt with. Today, ads, movies, etc., teach fatherless women to dress, and visit public places where they can be in danger of rape.

    1 act of sex mean a great deal to God. This is why in the New Testament, Paul says “FLEE FORNICATION”. The Law covers simply EVERY aspect of every possible way to DO a judgment about it should it occur.

    Remember, the judgments of God are Eternal, as shown in this passage: (I did not make the Law, neither is this MY “interpretation”.)

    Ps 119:160-163
    “Thy word is true from the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgments endureth FOR EVER.
    161 Princes have persecuted me without a cause: but my heart standeth in awe of thy word.
    162 I rejoice at thy word, as one that findeth GREAT SPOIL.
    163 I hate and abhor lying: but THY LAW DO I LOVE.”KJV

    So, if one thinks these Laws are ridiculous, like my youngest son, a great fornicator, then that one doesn’t HATE lies. Every SINGLE ONE of God’s JUDGMENTS, the Psalmist said, is FOREVER. That means that the Blood of Christ COVERS the SIN, but…to make it all right, the Judgment must be done, as in the case of wrecking someone’s car. The Blood of Christ COVERS that sin, but no judge will let a person off without PAYING for the DAMAGES! To marry, depending on the Father’s approval, is only RIGHT!

    Take heed all young men, in other words.

    If a nation KEPT this judgment alone, ALL pre-marital SEX would STOP very quickly. The cost would be far too great…not worth it, in other words.

    WHAT therefore IS Marriage?

    It is a CONTRACT. The Marriage of God to His people ISRAEL, ended in DIVORCE (Jer.3:14) though the Lord God considered Himself STILL MARRIED TO her.

    Today some ministers say, one can remarry someone else if there is adultery. But this same chapter in Jeremiah agrees with the words of Christ in Matthew 5:
    Jer 3:1 “THEY SAY, If a man put away his wife, and she go from him, and become another man’s, shall he return unto her again? shall not that land be greatly polluted? but thou hast played the harlot with many lovers; yet RETURN AGAIN TO ME, saith the LORD.”KJV

    God didn’t think it POLLUTED the land for His adulterous WIFE to return to Him. They were still married. In fact, Israel was MARRIED to the Lord God (who is the Christ of the New Testament, see II Cor. 10, Christ is the ROCK that was in the wilderness WITH Israel). That marriage Contract (the Old Covenant) ENDED at the DEATH of Christ. Yet, now, what is Christ intending to do about it? He was sent to the Lost Sheep of the House of Israel. NOW, Christ is preparing Spiritual Israel (which includes Gentiles AND Jews [Hebrews from 12 tribes]) as a Spiritual BRIDE for Himself to WED at the Resurrection, which will be WHEN the NEW COVENANT (of Marriage) is made. This covenant will not be like the old one. This NEW one is like Jeremiah described (the longest OT quotation in the New Testament). God will WRITE the LAW in their HEARTS (by the HOLY SPIRIT, which Ancient Israel did not have), and they will not DEPART any more from their Husband, Christ, for they will all KNOW HIM, as Jeremiah and Paul described.

    Today only the “earnest” of the Spirit is given. It can be quenched. But, when BORN OF the Spirit, becoming not flesh, but SPIRIT, entirely (flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom), he that is BORN of the Spirit will not be ABLE to SIN as the Holy Spirit is always IN the person: “1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.”

    Where do VOWS come in?

    Since Marriage is a CONTRACT, there can be vows. But, also the Bible shows in some cases that no vow occured only the giving of the woman to the man and she “BECAME” his wife, BECAUSE…..her Father “allowed her” to be married and she didn’t disagree.

    In the case of ADAM and EVE God brought her to the man and they became one flesh, through consumation of the marriage between virgins.

    ISAAC brought REBEKAH into his Mother’s tent and she became his wife. What were they doing in the tent?

    Abigail “became” David’s wife. But, David was already married to Saul’s daughter. This was an adulterous wife. Later Scriptures don’t say what happened to Michal, but it is possible though Scriptures don’t say, that she died. And after her death David met Bathsheba, who was his WIFE until his death at age 70. At that age David still did not have relations with the young VIRGIN that slept with him to keep his feet warm. One could ask WHY didn’t Bathsheba keep his feet warm?

    A non-believing wife can be put away: I Cor.7, Ezra 10.

    Abraham probably did this with Keturah. Keturah probably went WITH her 6 sons when Abraham sent them away with gifts. Who was at his burial? Only his first 2 sons. No one else came. Why not? Doesn’t say. But Keturah did not rear his 6 children according to Abraham’s pleasing, so that he separated Isaac from them.

    If the unbelieving is PLEASED to DWELL with the believer, there is no putting away. God says to keep His Law in the Family. In Ezra, they put away their pagan wives though they had children with them, to build at Jerusalem. Those wives refused to COME to Jerusalem. They were unbelieving.

    If a mate is pleased to dwell, that mate will obey the Law of God in the Christian Family. If they will not obey the Law, the disobedient mate will PULL the BELIEVER DOWN into unbelief, as God has said. I have seen it. The Believer compromises, the Law of God is compromised. Here is the Law about that:

    Deut.7:3 “Deut 7:3-6 3 Neither shalt thou make marriages with them; thy daughter thou shalt not give unto his son, nor his daughter shalt thou take unto thy son.
    4 For they will turn away thy son from following me, that they may serve other gods: so will the anger of the LORD be kindled against you, and destroy thee suddenly.
    5 But thus shall ye deal with them; ye shall destroy their altars, and break down their images, and cut down their groves, and burn their graven images with fire.
    6 For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.”KJV

    Here are God’s consequences for such unholy unions:
    Josh 23:12-13 “Else if ye do in any wise go back, and cleave unto the remnant of these nations, even these that remain among you, and shall make marriages with them, and go in unto them, and they to you:
    13 Know for a certainty that the LORD your God will no more drive out any of these nations from before you; but they shall be snares and traps unto you, and scourges in your sides, and thorns in your eyes, until ye perish from off this good land which the LORD your God hath given you.”KJV

    The meek will inherit the Earth, with Christ. Christ is the Seed of Abraham, Who is the only one that can inherit what was promised to Abraham: The LAND.

    All other humans will die. Christians can inherit (become heirs with Christ) the Earth when they are resurrected to Eternal Life, marry Christ, and become HIS WIFE. That is how it works.

    So, we see that Marriage is The Gospel, and is a Contract, that requires Laws between men and women, and authority of that Law, whether with consent of a Father, or consensual sex between VIRGINS. The Law covers every other aspect of sex between NON-virgins.

    Sorry this is so long, but I have not “interpreted” Scriptures. It has interpreted itself.
    The Law: commandments, statutes, with the judgments, are all spiritual Law and therefore Eternal. Circumcision is today “of the heart” (women never could be circumcized anyway), and eating of blood, fornication, and eating of things strangled have always been part of that Law. These were just in the ritualistic law added AFTER Ancient Israel sinned and Moses went up Sinai a second time. God added the rituals then, and these 4 were in the previous Law so were not “done away” at the Sacrifice of Christ.

  • Margaret says on: July 15, 2007 at 7:20 pm

     

    Can a Father “allow” his daughter to marry a man that is NOT a virgin? Does that Father have the authority to give his daughter away to such a man? If that man has not done God’s judgment with the previous woman/women will God BIND the Father’s virgin daughter to this non-virgin man? Can one just sweep premarital sex under the carpet and move on? What does the Law of God say about these things? Is God’s Law INCOMPLETE on these issues, or is there a Law that covers ALL aspects and side issues of premarital sex? Isn’t it true that a young man, who refuses to do God’s judgment regarding his own premarital sex with other women, is committing adultery to try and bypass the judgment and marry someone else, though a virgin woman? Can this young man make God’s judgment (Law) of no effect by just IGNORING it? Ezekiel 5:6-17 answers these questions.

  • MInTheGap says on: July 16, 2007 at 1:28 pm

     

    Thanks for a well informed and interesting discussion, Margaret.

    I must apologized for I missed the fact that you had a threefold test in your first post– virgin woman, virgin man and father’s approval. I simply zoned in on the first component. I do not disagree that the father has much more responsibility in marriage than what we typically give him. I also think that there’s a lot to discuss here which is why I asked questions to flesh out all the possibilities, not necessarily for my own benefit, but also for that of my readers.

    For example, you speak in your last comment about a father “allowing” his daughter to marry a man that is not a virgin. However, you don’t take into account in your discussion of what happens when the spouse of one has died. Certainly the Bible is also clear that once a spouse has died the remaining spouse is free to remarry. Also, the other case of some discussion is what to do with a spouse that is a believer and one that is not. Paul talks about if the unbeliever wants to leave the believer is free– does this mean free of the marriage obligation, are they no longer one, is it adultery if the believing spouse remarries?

    These are more complicated to me with good people disagreeing passionately in both ways.

  • Margaret says on: July 17, 2007 at 2:31 am

     

    I asked the question, “Can a Father ‘allow’ his daughter to marry a man that is NOT a virgin?”

    A father CAN do what he wants, but does the Law of God “allow” him to approve of what is CONTRARY to the Law of God? No. Of course not.

    However, today many, many fathers do not know that the God-approved marriage of their virgin daughter is THEIR OWN (the Father’s). Firstly, a VIRGIN daughter won’t be going around sneaking with non-virgins, so a Father is most likely to be in touch with who her boyfriends are. In Deuteronomy, the Father was to present the Elders of the city the PROOFS of her virginity when it was questioned:

    Deut 22:15-18 “Then shall the father of the damsel, and her mother, take and bring forth the tokens of the damsel’s virginity unto the elders of the city in the gate:
    16 And the damsel’s father shall say unto the elders, I gave my daughter unto this man to wife, and he hateth her;
    17 And, lo, he hath given occasions of speech against her, saying, I found not thy daughter a maid; and yet these are the tokens of my daughter’s virginity. And they shall spread the cloth before the elders of the city.
    18 And the elders of that city shall take that man and chastise him;”KJV

    But if a Father doesn’t know to find out IF his daughter is marrying a virgin man, (or care to know) God doesn’t go back on His Own WORD. A non-virgin man has a judgment to do with another Father, IF he hasn’t yet done Ex.22:17. He has to CLEAR HIMSELF BEFORE he can marry ANYONE ELSE (confess stealing another woman’s virginity with that previous woman’s Father). If THAT previous Father doesn’t want the boy as son-in-law, he is free, but has to PAY 50 shekels (I think in today’s $$ is about $150, not sure of that amount). Suppose he can’t FIND that Father, or the girl won’t tell him if the Father already knew they had sex and said nothing (in which case if the Father KNEW but “held his peace” those two SURELY HAVE TO get married because the Father held his peace Numbers 30). My youngest son thinks this is “ridiculous” but it is not MY LAW it is God’s. I know one Father whose daughter was raped by a man with numerous women before her. The Father forbid her to even DATE this man, but the daughter did anyway and got raped. The Father in this case DISALLOWED any relationship at all with that man, and God upheld it, rape or not. Years later, she met her current husband, who had had 3 previous women, and the woman’s Father APPROVED of him. Well, the Father had no RIGHT, by the Law of God, to approve of his daughter marrying a non-virgin man without some serious searching questions (IF he is to be responsible before Almighty God for his daughter). The Father did NOT ask questions and they have been married now 16 years. Has God BOUND this marriage in “Holy” matrimony?

    No. They are both committing adultery because…… (sounds strange huh? A first marriage that is adultery….?)

    …because the man has to do the Judgment of Ex.22:16-17 NOW with EACH of those 3 previous women’s Fathers, FIND the Fathers, talk to them, and what if his daughters weren’t virgins with THIS man had them. It gets convoluted and entwined: that is why to “Flee fornication”.

    Ok. Now regarding when a spouse dies: (This is EASY, if….the Eternal “if”… there were NO sexual relations with other women in the living partners PAST before his FIRST marriage in which the spouse died-if there was, then many serious numbers of years may make it impossible to find the facts, and one may have to become a “eunuch” for the Kingdom of God in such a case. Matt.19:12)

    Paul said, Rom 7:1-3 “Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?
    2 For the woman which hath an husband is BOUND BY THE LAW to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is LOOSED FROM THE LAW of her husband. 3 So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is FREE FROM THAT LAW; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.”KJV

    This is restated in I Cor.7:
    1 Cor 7:39 “The wife is bound by the law as long as her husband liveth; but if her husband be dead, she is at liberty to be married to whom she will; only in the Lord.”
    KJV

    Now the I Corinthians 7 chapter is controversial to those who don’t KNOW the LAW. The Bible says Paul wrote things “hard” to be understood by those who are unlearned:

    2 Peter 3:16-17 “As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
    17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.
    KJV

    Some have taken I Cor.7 to mean when the unbeliever departs, there may be a remarriage to someone else.

    This is very contrary to EVERY LAW of GOD on marriage stated in the Bible.

    First of all, here is the verse USED to base this popular belief:
    1 Cor 7:15
    “But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases: but God hath called us to peace.”KJV

    The word here is “bondage”. Now true Godly “agape” love is never bondage. Christ was not under bondage when He gave His Life’s Blood for our sins. The “bondage” spoken of here is in the case of the husband, to PROVIDE FOR his wife when she’d rather be single, or married adulterously to someone else, or in the case of the woman, to have to OBEY her husband when she is divorcing him, say because he is committing adultery, being a drunkard, beating her, or some other ungodly unlivable scenario. God has called us to PEACE of MIND, BODY, and this “BONDAGE” is only to have to provide for a wife that doesn’t WANT to be your WIFE, or a husband lives only for himself and perhaps is dishonest, in crime, etc.

    These two are NOT free of the UNION! They are “free from each other”, but not “free to remarry” someone else. Christ said, they “are NO MORE TWAIN but ONE FLESH”. Let them reconcile. Or stay divorced or separated, as the Lord God did with Ancient Israel, His wife (Jer.3), UNTIL reconciliation takes place.

    The proof of this is in the reading of the following verse: it says “For what knowest thou, O wife, whether thou shalt save thy husband? or how knowest thou, O man, whether thou shalt save thy wife?”

    Let’s reason. IF they would be FREE to REMARRY how would such a remarriage SAVE their husband or wife? It wouldn’t. It would ADD to the SIN.

    Christ said, “Matt 5:32 I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of FORNICATION (pre-marital with someone else), CAUSETH her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.”

    Putting away CAUSES MORE adultery. Not always, but it mostly does. If a couple doesn’t get to the bottom of their problems and SOLVE them, one or the other of the two of them will begin to LOOK for another MATE, and thereby commit adultery because of having been put away.

    Divorce breeds ADULTERY because God made us to be happiest in marriage where ALL HIS LAWS are kept. God wants us to SOLVE our problems. All problems are the result of breaking the Laws of God. So when we stop breaking these Laws, we are in harmony with God and with man. God has made a Law guideline for EVERY CASE in life. When these Laws are obeyed by BOTH the man and his wife, and God and Christ are IN their marriage and IN their minds by the Holy Spirit, then the marriage is happy.

    If you want me to, I can quote this whole chapter and go through it verse by verse and explain the WHOLE MEANING of each verse and make it all very clear. The next to last verse states the PROPER WAY to INTERPRET verse 15. There is to be NO REMARRIAGE.

    Verse 39:
    1 Cor 7:39 “The wife is bound by the law as long as her husband liveth; but if her husband be dead, she is at liberty to be married to whom she will; only in the Lord.”
    KJV

    If the unbelieving depart, LET THEM. But the two are STILL BOUND BY the Law until DEATH do us part. So, let us WORK on our marriages, and make them according to ALL God’s Laws, and we and our children will have God’s blessing.

    Christ said this about singleness of PURPOSE:
    Matt 6:22-24 “The light of the body is the eye (purpose): if therefore thine eye be single (sound), thy whole body shall be full of light.
    23 But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!
    24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.
    KJV

    In a pure glass of H2O if there exists a minute portion of cyanide, HOW “great” is that “poison”, in other words.

    Christ says of singleness of purpose: Matt 6:33-34 “But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.
    34 Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.”KJV

    Regarding the marriage Law and Laws regarding sexual sin, we must get ALL the FACTS out of Scripture before seeing CLEARLY with the LIGHT of God. One small assumption and we MISS the Truth.

    Christ said there is ONE reason for putting away, and that is pre-marital sex (the same word as “ervah” in Deut.24:1-4, and in that case God NEVER MADE THEM ONE FLESH ANYWAY, because God knew of the “ervah”, the “porneia” (NT word). Divorce for any other reason was CAUSE for further ADULTERY should they remarry any one else in their lifetime before their mate died. After the death of the mate they are “loosed from the Law”.

  • Margaret says on: July 17, 2007 at 2:42 am

     

    Sorry, I should have added this:

    Matthew 19 is a chapter dealing with the marriage Law, Christ, and the Pharisees. It is preceeded by Chapter 18 in which Christ said that in order for one’s OWN SINS to be forgiven one HAS TO FORGIVE others.

    Those that say the “adultery” of one mate is CAUSE for the remarriage to another of the other mate.

    No. No! and NO!!!

    If there has been adultery in a marriage, ongoing, or repented of, it MUST BE FORGIVEN on the part of the Christian IF the Christian is to have the Blood of Christ forgive his own sins. That is the Law. That is what Christ did for us: He DIED BEFORE we repented. The Christian in such a case has to WAIT, to PRAY FOR, to HOPE FOR, and to be the EXAMPLE FOR the mate that is caught in the terrible sin of adultery. This is the LOVE of God. This is what is IN most wedding vows: “for better or for worse”.

    This doesn’t mean one has to LIVE WITH adultery. They can separate. But, only until they reconcile. God LOVES forgiveness, repentance, and obedience to His Holy Law.

    It is a very POWERFUL example for the one not committing adultery to LOVE in this manner, with patience, trusting in God to lead the other person OUT of their sin, even if they should remarry and committ adultery with another, for YEARS. This is the most POWERFUL STATEMENT of LOVE in the BIBLE. This is what GOD is DOING with His Wife: WAITING, PLEADING, HOPING for her repentance…and then of course, He paid the penalty of her sin with his own Blood in the meantime. This IS The True Gospel, the Good News!

    The Gospel of the Kingdom of God is that God is making a Spiritual Family made of Divine Beings, made in His Image, who will keep His Laws, have Eternal Life as He does, and occupy planet Earth for Eternity in a Marriage with Christ, The King of Kings, forever in Wedded BLISS!

  • MInTheGap says on: July 17, 2007 at 1:13 pm

     

    A couple of points to consider.

    The Greek lexicon for Fornication lists the definitions to include “adultery, fornication, homosexuality, lesbianism, intercourse with animals etc.” Although it definitely makes sense that they could also put them away before marriage (i.e. Joseph was going to put Mary away privately because she was found with child), it’s not consistent to say that pre-marital sex was the only cause for divorce permitted– though detested– by God.

    Second, 2 Corinthians 6:11-18 and Ezra 10 have an interesting perspective. In the Corinthians passage, Paul tells them that read it that there is no union between light and darkness. In Ezra, it was considered godly to put away, or divorce, the women that they had married from the land. Paul’s dissertation about unbelieving spouses seems to be consistent with the dynamics of what truly happens in a family that has one believing and one unbelieving spouse.

    I definitely agree with you that divorce, pre-marital sex, and the rest are definitely not what God intended, and that “fixing it” gets messy. But I also know that God forgives sin, that it is He that knows exactly what should happen in each circumstance, and that I’ll be much happier when He returns! 🙂

  • Margaret says on: July 21, 2007 at 11:22 pm

     

    We can understand how to use a Greek Lexicon with the Bible by having as our foundation the Word of God and the Lexicon only as an AID, secondly.

    Before Mt. Sinai and Exodus 20 God said: Ex 12:49 “One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you.”

    The Sixth Commandment existed before Cain killed Abel. Cain did not get the death penalty for killing his brother because God keeps His Own Law: the judgment of God is: Ex 21:12-19 “He that smiteth a man, so that he die, shall be surely put to death.13 And if a man lie not in wait, but God deliver him into his hand; then I will appoint thee a place whither he shall flee. 14 But if a man come presumptuously upon his neighbour, to slay him with guile; thou shalt take him from mine altar, that he may die. 15 And he that smiteth his father, or his mother, shall be surely put to death. 16 And he that stealeth a man, and selleth him, or if he be found in his hand, he shall surely be put to death. 17 And he that curseth his father, or his mother, shall surely be put to death. 18 And if men strive together, and one smite another with a stone, or with his fist, and he die not, but keepeth his bed: 19 If he rise again, and walk abroad upon his staff, then shall he that smote him be quit: only he shall pay for the loss of his time, and shall cause him to be thoroughly healed.”

    So this is WHY God sent Cain away and did not give him the death penalty. This was in the beginning.

    God “made” the Sabbath Holy (the 4th Commandment) on the 7th Day of Creation Week. “Gen 2:1-3 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. 2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. 3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.”

    Before Sinai, God told both Abraham and Isaac to keep His Laws: “Gen 26:3-5 Sojourn in this land, and I will be with thee, and will bless thee; for unto thee, and unto thy seed, I will give all these countries, and I will perform the oath which I sware unto Abraham thy father; 4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; 5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.”

    The word for “laws” is Torah. Therefore, commandments, statutes, and Judgments.
    A good place to begin reading this Law is Ex.20 through the end of Deuteronomy. Then one can go to the beginning of Genesis and see HOW these Laws have existed since Creation and were either kept or not kept.

    Malachi says to every generation since his day until TODAY: “Mal 4:4-6 Remember ye the law of Moses my servant, which I commanded unto him in Horeb for all Israel, with the statutes AND JUDGMENTS. 5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD: 6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.”

    Abraham, the Father of the faithful, and his son Isaac, and also Jacob (Israel) kept God’s Laws. Moses in Egypt did not know them. They had to be revealed. By Ex. 16, when God revealed the Sabbath to the Children of Israel through Moses, some went out on the Sabbath to gather firewood anyway and God said:
    Ex 16:28 And the LORD said unto Moses, How long refuse ye to keep my commandments and my laws?”

    Moses gave Deut.24:1-4 to the Children of Israel because of the hardness of their hearts. But Christ said: “Mark 10:5-9 And Jesus answered and said unto them, For the hardness of your heart he wrote you this precept. But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female. For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife; And they twain shall be one flesh: so then they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.”

    We can believe Christ or not. In Moses’ day the people were “playing games” with God’s Law and on the wedding night were tasting and seeing before “consummating”, then demanding divorces if they were displeased with what they “saw”. “In the beginning this was not so.”

    Christ also said this to the Jews of His day: “John 5:46-47 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?”

    I still insist that the Bible has always stated that marriage is for life, between virgins, with Father’s approval, IF there is a Father, and for life between virgins if no father at all. Any other state carries a Biblical judgment with it.

    OSHA and other construction organizations follow some of the judgments from the Bible, such as putting up a barrier on a roof under construction so that one does not FALL from it: “Deut 22:8 When thou buildest a new house, then thou shalt make a battlement for thy roof, that thou bring not blood upon thine house, if any man fall from thence.”

    Laws about agriculture and animal husbandry existed since Creation: “Deut 22:9 Thou shalt not sow thy vineyard with divers seeds: lest the fruit of thy seed which thou hast sown, and the fruit of thy vineyard, be defiled.” Hybrid seed cannot be saved to reproduce after its own kind. It produces a different variety the next time sown. This modern world has MOSTLY hybrid seed.

    These are two sensible Laws: “Deut 22:10-11 Thou shalt not plow with an ox and an ass together. Thou shalt not wear a garment of divers sorts, as of woollen and linen together.”

    Read the Law, then BELIEVE Christ when he states there is 1 reason for putting away, and that is because God never bound a marriage that had premarital sex anyway, because of premarital sex in some form with another person, animal, etc. But once they are married virgins, according to obedience to ALL the Laws of God (IF a Father or if no Father), it is “no more twain but one flesh.” That is how it is now, and how it has been since the Beginning. God be praised that He made these Laws for our good:
    We must not refuse judgment: “Lev 18:5 Ye shall therefore keep my statutes, and my judgments: which if a man do, he shall LIVE IN THEM: I am the LORD.”

    And…: “Ezek 5:5-8 Thus saith the Lord GOD; This is Jerusalem: I have set it in the midst of the nations and countries that are round about her. And she hath CHANGED MY JUDGMENTS into wickedness more than the nations, and my statutes more than the countries that are round about her: for they have REFUSED my judgments and my statutes, they have not walked in them. Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Because ye multiplied more than the nations that are round about you, and have not walked in my statutes, neither have kept my judgments, neither have done according to the judgments of the nations that are round about you; Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I, even I, am against thee, and will execute judgments in the midst of thee in the sight of the nations.”

    Ezek 18:30-32 “Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways, saith the Lord GOD. Repent, and TURN yourselves from all your transgressions; so iniquity shall not be your RUIN. Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel? For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord GOD: wherefore turn yourselves, and live ye.”

    This is therefore a GOOD judgment (that which makes RIGHT something that was WRONG), leading to Life (Eternal), one requiring the giving away of a Bride by her Father:
    Ex 22:16-17 “And if a man entice a maid that is not betrothed, and lie with her, he shall surely endow her to be his wife. If her father utterly refuse to give her unto him, he shall pay money according to the dowry of virgins.”

  • Margaret says on: July 21, 2007 at 11:36 pm

     

    Some so-called Bible scholars, attempting to justify the prevalent trend in breaking up families by divorce and allowing remarriage, have resorted to a striving about the technical meaning of certain words — especially the Greek word porneia used by Christ in Matthew 19.

    God’s Word admonishes us to “strive not about words to no profit, but to the subverting of hearers” (II Timothy 2:14). And the 15th verse continues: “STUDY to show thy self approved unto God … rightly dividing the word of truth.”

MInTheGap

Standing in the Gap in a Society that's Warring with God.

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