MInTheGap

Standing in the Gap in a Society that's Warring with God.

Typical Politics

July 16th, 2006 Visited 2187 times, 1 so far today

Repression
After making a strong stance against immigration by authorizing the building of a fence on the Mexican American border, the Senate thought it could get away with not following through and it denied funds to actually start the project!

This rankles me– I mean, we can find millions of dollars to do projects in ones home town, projects ranging from helping out private entities to building bridges and tunnels that are not needed but we can’t find the funds to build a wall to try to stop people from coming into the country illegally?

This is just one more thing that shows me that we’re not really serious about solving the immigration program, it’s just all show. I mean, I don’t understand why the government is so terrified of doing something to cut off the Mexicans with a fence. I mean, are they concerned that the Mexicans will somehow turn into the Palestinians? I don’t think there’s a unity there for that to happen– although some of them do believe that some of California and the Southwest should still be part of Mexico.

Are they worried about the Hispanic vote– those people that are voting illegally? What is the deal here? Why can’t we build a fence? Someone should start some kind of private funding and get this thing accomplished.

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  • Stephen Kingston says on: July 16, 2006 at 11:57 am

     

    But maybe the question should be: what is the puprose of restricting immigration? Why do people want to enter illegally into the U.S.? And what Christian attitude counters this?

    If these are economic migrants, attempting to escape poverty, shouldn’t we share our wealth (and thus our nations) with them?

    Regards,
    Stephen

  • MInTheGap says on: July 16, 2006 at 2:19 pm

     

    It’s certainly “Christian” to share and to be helpful to ones neighbor, but there needs to be some way to determine needs and motives. For example, Paul commanded in the New Testmanet that if a woman became a widow that didn’t automatically give her the right to be cared for the by the church– she had to be a “window indeed,” one that would not be getting married again, or be spending her time looking for a husband.

    Same thing with the people of other countries. I have no problem caring for other people, but with the ability of terrorists to come in through porus (sp?) borders, the fact that these people do not always want to become Americans, and the fact that there is a bit of an effort to “retake this land that was rightfully ours” of a mindset, if a country does not take precautions, have a workable process with the ability to keep out if need be, we are just leaving ourselves open to the possibility of bigger problems in the future.

    Let’s export how to make a country great instead of watering down what makes us great.

  • Stephen Kingston says on: July 16, 2006 at 5:53 pm

     

    Paul wrote what he said about widows because of a problem of the fledgling church, with limited resources, needing to target aid at those who were most in need, rather than over stretching itself and ultimately helping no one. (c.f. for instance the discussuion of 1 Tim 5 in J N D Kelly’s commentary on the pastoral epistles – Blacks new testament commentaries).

    This is why Paul speaks of a “widow indeed” or a widow who is in real need, putting her trust in God.

    Is this then the same with people in other countries? Is it the case that the resources of the U.S. would be so over-stretched by an influx of immigrants that it would not be able to provide for them at all?

    Surely not. Indeed, American and Western European economies actually need to import people in order to sustain their economies. We are not producing enough of our own!

    But economics aside, a Christian compassion should look to the sharing of our wealth, given by God, with the poor. If someone is in so much need that they will leave their homes and loved ones, and come to an alien country, work in the posts that no one else will fill, and eek out a living as best they can, then shouldn’t we, as Christians, try to help them in whatever way we can?

    Terrorists? That is today’s bogey man. Timothy McVeigh was an American. None of the September 11th bombers were Mexican.

    I am not sure we should impute attitudes onto desperate people. The danger is that we stereotype them and then learn to hate the stereotype, whereas Jesus told us to love our neighbours.

    And I don’t think one can export what makes a country great whilst trampelling on the poor. I don’t think countries that do this are great.

    All the best,
    Stephen

  • Chris Naron says on: July 16, 2006 at 9:32 pm

     

    I’ve always been very sympathetic towards immigrants having worked with them in the construction industry and now teaching many of their children. The bottom line is that there has to be order when it comes to immigration. We need to let more in legally than we do, but we also have to stop the lawlessness at the border. Such chaos can only lead to disaster. A wall would go a long way to calm things down, but the GOP I’m afraid is committed to an increasingly blurry line between the US, Mexico and Canada. A wall would be a setback on the road to a North American Union.

  • MInTheGap says on: July 16, 2006 at 8:50 pm

     

    You make a compelling argument. However, I think the I Timothy passage goes past the financial abilities of the widow to discuss the character and heart attitude of the widow– her intent as it were. She is to have a testimony of service to others, a love for the Lord and showing that she raised children well.

    Now I will grant you that some of these people come to America because of the wealth here to send back to their families. I’ve spoken before on the issue of human trafficking of mexicans across the boarder. I’ve read before of things that people have to do to come here.

    I have no problem bringing hard working people that are good citizens into this country to find a job, to support their parents, and for us to help support them. I’m sure that if you look at the aid money flowing out of this country it’s way more than most countries.

    However, you cannot discount that there are other reasons for coming across the border than to work in “jobs American’s won’t take.” (That could be a whole sub discussion!) There are drugs that come across a porous border. Terrorists came across the Candian border both in 9/11 and in the Millenium bomb attempt.

    But above that, and more scary than that, is the rising number of people in this country that see themsevles not as Americans, or even wanting to be Americans, but in wanting to take this country for their own. That would be the result of these people coming in, living off our generosity while not paying into the system– it’s a bloodless revolution to be sure, but the U.S. does have to think about self preservation.

  • Stephen Kingston says on: July 17, 2006 at 5:46 pm

     

    if you look at the aid money flowing out of this country it’s way more than most countries.

    Are we talking about U.S. foreign aid?

    The USA’s aid, in terms of percentage of their GNP has almost always been lower than any other industrialized nation in the world, though paradoxically since 2000, their dollar amount has been the highest. (Only since 2004 have they move up from last place, by one.)

    Japan has historically been the largest giver in terms of total capital. As a percentage of GNP, Norway and Sweden fight for top place (at .93% and .92% of GNP respectively).

    Chris: I think you make a good point about a two pronged approach – making immigration easier whilst attempting to reduce chaos and potential disaster.

    The EU needs to do much the same thing, as the Canary Islands are being inundated with wave after wave of African immigration.

    But I don’t think physical barriers are the answer.

    Another possibility is an economic policy that favours poor neighbours, to lift them out of poverty and reduce the need for economic migration. This is one of the loftier aims of the E.U., as expressed by Sir Fred Catherwood in his book “Pro-Europe?” However, thus far the EU policy has ignored Africa, to everyone’s cost.

    Regards,
    Stephen

  • MInTheGap says on: July 17, 2006 at 5:57 pm

     

    Part of the problem I see is that it’s easy for us to say “well, let’s just solve it with a program” without knowing the totality of what the problem is. According to my limited knowledge of Mexican affairs, they believe in having a rich class and a poor class with no middle class. They are not doing anything to balance it, nor would they take any training that we gave them and apply it. The rich in the country seem to have more than enough and could pay for things without us shovelling money their way.

    Just throwing a program at it won’t cure it if the current government isn’t in favor of it.

  • DLOGAN says on: June 8, 2007 at 7:58 pm

     

    Stephen,
    I do not doubt that we should be more benevolent to our neighbors but nowhere in scripture do I find anything that condones illegal behavior, or making it easier for someone to break the law. A wall next to Mexico would help limit illegal activities, which as Christians we all should be for. If our policy on immigration needs to change then the laws need to change. The answer is not to simply not enforce the laws we have on the books. To not enforce the laws we’ve created I think is to encourage sin. At a bare minimum, we are not letting “Our Yes, be Yes and our No be No” by having immigration laws on the books but very little enforcement of them. Personally, I am not that fond of illegal immigration.
    There are a lot of studies that show that illegal immigrants are unlikely to pay taxes or contribute in any monetary form to our government, yet they use our schools, hospitals, etc. E.G. There are two reasons why our health insurance is so high now, #1 litigation, #2 non-paying patients, largely illegal immigrants. Hospitals have had to close when the demographics of their neighborhoods have changed to largely include illegal immigrants.
    I’m a firm believer that if someone is going to take advantage of the resources of our country then they should be helping pay into that system. I know that there are a lot of people who are, even those who are here illegally, but there are also large numbers of people who are not. Those people are a drain on our society.

    We must remember as Christians we are to help those in need, but we must also remember,

    2Th 3:10 “For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat.”

    As Christians we are not required to take care of people who are not willing to work. While there are many immigrants here who are here to work, are willing to work, and want to do the right thing, there are also a lot of them that are not. We should do everything we can to get those here legally who are willing to work, and do everything we can to get rid of those people who are just here for a handout. There are some tough policies that must be created to help differentiate.

    One thing is clear, what we have now is not working.

MInTheGap

Standing in the Gap in a Society that's Warring with God.

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