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	<title>Comments on: Have You Had Enough?</title>
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	<link>http://www.minthegap.com/2009/01/06/have-you-had-enough/</link>
	<description>Standing in the Gap in a Society that&#039;s Warring with God.</description>
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		<title>By: Amanda</title>
		<link>http://www.minthegap.com/2009/01/06/have-you-had-enough/comment-page-1/#comment-83758</link>
		<dc:creator>Amanda</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Jan 2009 16:34:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.minthegap.com/2009/01/06/have-you-had-enough/#comment-83758</guid>
		<description>Wonderful post.  I would argue, though, that there&#039;s a reason beyond being spread too thin or having too many distractions behind people dropping out.  Or maybe it&#039;s not an argument at all, but an attempt to explain this behavior.

For new believers church is a magical place, full of love and fellowship with people who &quot;get you&quot;, spiritual things, you actually have things to learn... As we progress in our spiritual journeys those things spoken of in services becomes incredibly redundant and while the people around us may still be just as loving (and sometimes they are not) they just don&#039;t seem very interested in leaving their comfort zones.  Smiling and shaking hands, holding potlucks: all very nice, but usually unproductive.  I know these things are supposed to promote relations between members and bring about an air of love and acceptance that will draw new members, etc, etc, but there are many of us who want something more- and we are unstimulated spending 4 hours/week listening to the same old service.  It&#039;s like being a 5th grader and sitting in on a 1st grade class every day.  The only way to progress is on your own.  If you can do it on your own, why bother showing up?

Churches have recognized and tried to address these issues, but I&#039;ve only seen them fail in finding a solution.  Much of the blame can be placed on the wayfaring believers for demanding so much, but the church does have a responsibility to its existing members, while the existing members have the responsibility of bringing new people to faith.

This is the reason I&#039;ve all but dropped out, and I&#039;m still &quot;involved&quot; significantly more than many others.  I may be wrong, but it&#039;s a fact that many people just don&#039;t see the point.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wonderful post.  I would argue, though, that there&#8217;s a reason beyond being spread too thin or having too many distractions behind people dropping out.  Or maybe it&#8217;s not an argument at all, but an attempt to explain this behavior.</p>
<p>For new believers church is a magical place, full of love and fellowship with people who &#8220;get you&#8221;, spiritual things, you actually have things to learn&#8230; As we progress in our spiritual journeys those things spoken of in services becomes incredibly redundant and while the people around us may still be just as loving (and sometimes they are not) they just don&#8217;t seem very interested in leaving their comfort zones.  Smiling and shaking hands, holding potlucks: all very nice, but usually unproductive.  I know these things are supposed to promote relations between members and bring about an air of love and acceptance that will draw new members, etc, etc, but there are many of us who want something more- and we are unstimulated spending 4 hours/week listening to the same old service.  It&#8217;s like being a 5th grader and sitting in on a 1st grade class every day.  The only way to progress is on your own.  If you can do it on your own, why bother showing up?</p>
<p>Churches have recognized and tried to address these issues, but I&#8217;ve only seen them fail in finding a solution.  Much of the blame can be placed on the wayfaring believers for demanding so much, but the church does have a responsibility to its existing members, while the existing members have the responsibility of bringing new people to faith.</p>
<p>This is the reason I&#8217;ve all but dropped out, and I&#8217;m still &#8220;involved&#8221; significantly more than many others.  I may be wrong, but it&#8217;s a fact that many people just don&#8217;t see the point.</p>
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		<title>By: MInTheGap</title>
		<link>http://www.minthegap.com/2009/01/06/have-you-had-enough/comment-page-1/#comment-83745</link>
		<dc:creator>MInTheGap</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jan 2009 13:02:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.minthegap.com/2009/01/06/have-you-had-enough/#comment-83745</guid>
		<description>Exactly, Rachel.  When we&#039;ve gotten to the point that we&#039;re more interested in who is at the church and not our primary purpose for being at church in the first place, we&#039;ve lost Christianity and have substituted it with a club-- a place where we all have the same lingo and code words and have meetings, but we&#039;re more interested in horizontal fellowship than vertical.

We need to wake up and realize the point, or else even &quot;good&quot; churches will find their lampstands removed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Exactly, Rachel.  When we&#8217;ve gotten to the point that we&#8217;re more interested in who is at the church and not our primary purpose for being at church in the first place, we&#8217;ve lost Christianity and have substituted it with a club&#8211; a place where we all have the same lingo and code words and have meetings, but we&#8217;re more interested in horizontal fellowship than vertical.</p>
<p>We need to wake up and realize the point, or else even &#8220;good&#8221; churches will find their lampstands removed.</p>
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		<title>By: Rachel</title>
		<link>http://www.minthegap.com/2009/01/06/have-you-had-enough/comment-page-1/#comment-83732</link>
		<dc:creator>Rachel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Jan 2009 20:21:06 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Min, I think what you just suggested is part of the problem with churches today.  We try to lure people in by means other than the Word of God.  I&#039;m not saying there&#039;s anything wrong with VBS or youth ministries or small groups - those are all WONDERFUL things and needed for believer&#039;s fellowship.  But VBS eventually ends, kids grow up, families move.  If an event or activity is all that is keeping someone in the church, it&#039;s only a matter of time before that person moves on.

A church must be committed to two things: pure preaching of the Word of God and worship of Jesus Christ.  This might not be the recipe for Joel-Osteen-type success but it&#039;s what matters.

Our youth group is very small (about 12 teens) with an even smaller children&#039;s class.  A family with two young girls (ages 10- they&#039;re twins) left our church to go to a local mega-church so the girls could be in a bigger program.  The mother has since called and told us she&#039;s not getting fed there and neither are her husband or her daughters like they were at our church, but they don&#039;t want to leave because the girls are having fun and church and have friends.  Where are the priorities?

&lt;abbr&gt;&lt;em&gt;Rachels last blog post..&lt;a href=&quot;http://afuturepastorswife.blogspot.com/2009/01/mini-hiatus.html&quot;&gt;Mini-Hiatus&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/abbr&gt;&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Min, I think what you just suggested is part of the problem with churches today.  We try to lure people in by means other than the Word of God.  I&#8217;m not saying there&#8217;s anything wrong with VBS or youth ministries or small groups &#8211; those are all WONDERFUL things and needed for believer&#8217;s fellowship.  But VBS eventually ends, kids grow up, families move.  If an event or activity is all that is keeping someone in the church, it&#8217;s only a matter of time before that person moves on.</p>
<p>A church must be committed to two things: pure preaching of the Word of God and worship of Jesus Christ.  This might not be the recipe for Joel-Osteen-type success but it&#8217;s what matters.</p>
<p>Our youth group is very small (about 12 teens) with an even smaller children&#8217;s class.  A family with two young girls (ages 10- they&#8217;re twins) left our church to go to a local mega-church so the girls could be in a bigger program.  The mother has since called and told us she&#8217;s not getting fed there and neither are her husband or her daughters like they were at our church, but they don&#8217;t want to leave because the girls are having fun and church and have friends.  Where are the priorities?</p>
<p><abbr><em>Rachels last blog post..<a href="http://afuturepastorswife.blogspot.com/2009/01/mini-hiatus.html">Mini-Hiatus</a></em></abbr></p>
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		<title>By: MInTheGap</title>
		<link>http://www.minthegap.com/2009/01/06/have-you-had-enough/comment-page-1/#comment-83730</link>
		<dc:creator>MInTheGap</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Jan 2009 16:13:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.minthegap.com/2009/01/06/have-you-had-enough/#comment-83730</guid>
		<description>Thanks Rachel and Mary.  I think that churches are having a hard time coping with the fact that people aren&#039;t coming to us anymore.  I think that a lot of them figure that as long as we create a place people will want to go, they&#039;ll come to us and then stick around.  The reality is that there are not only many choices, but many more people that don&#039;t have the respect for the church that they once had.  So, we continue to do a lot of things the same way we always did, and then wonder why they stop coming.

I mean, it seems pretty funny when you start thinking &quot;Did the church at Ephesus have a great youth ministry?&quot;  or &quot;How many people came to the church at Philippi&#039;s Vacation Bible School?&quot;  but that&#039;s the way churches believe they need to be measured.  Somewhere along the line we&#039;ve conflated the two things-- the ministry and the mission-- and we&#039;re now reaping the result.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Rachel and Mary.  I think that churches are having a hard time coping with the fact that people aren&#8217;t coming to us anymore.  I think that a lot of them figure that as long as we create a place people will want to go, they&#8217;ll come to us and then stick around.  The reality is that there are not only many choices, but many more people that don&#8217;t have the respect for the church that they once had.  So, we continue to do a lot of things the same way we always did, and then wonder why they stop coming.</p>
<p>I mean, it seems pretty funny when you start thinking &#8220;Did the church at Ephesus have a great youth ministry?&#8221;  or &#8220;How many people came to the church at Philippi&#8217;s Vacation Bible School?&#8221;  but that&#8217;s the way churches believe they need to be measured.  Somewhere along the line we&#8217;ve conflated the two things&#8211; the ministry and the mission&#8211; and we&#8217;re now reaping the result.</p>
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		<title>By: Mary</title>
		<link>http://www.minthegap.com/2009/01/06/have-you-had-enough/comment-page-1/#comment-83728</link>
		<dc:creator>Mary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Jan 2009 02:51:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.minthegap.com/2009/01/06/have-you-had-enough/#comment-83728</guid>
		<description>Wow! What a great post! 

This is the time of year at our church, for the annual business meeting, and all the committees are re-upping for the next year. I&#039;ve resigned as Education chair, just don&#039;t have my heart involved anymore, and time has become an issue as well. I do look around and see the same families serving (your 20/80% analogy is right on) year after year, and I don&#039;t know how they continue without burning out. I&#039;ve always struggled with the verses that talk about young wives and mothers being keepers at home...well, the church is starving for service, and stay at home moms are so available. Volunteers are over-worked, b/c we&#039;re *all* busy!

I love our church, and how organized it is...but sometimes I wonder if we&#039;re all so involved w/in the building that outreach is something none of us have the time or energy for...

&lt;abbr&gt;&lt;em&gt;Marys last blog post..&lt;a href=&quot;http://homesteepedhope.com/2009/01/01/start-the-new-year-off-right-with-daily-bible-reading/&quot;&gt;Start the New Year off right with daily Bible reading&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/abbr&gt;&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow! What a great post! </p>
<p>This is the time of year at our church, for the annual business meeting, and all the committees are re-upping for the next year. I&#8217;ve resigned as Education chair, just don&#8217;t have my heart involved anymore, and time has become an issue as well. I do look around and see the same families serving (your 20/80% analogy is right on) year after year, and I don&#8217;t know how they continue without burning out. I&#8217;ve always struggled with the verses that talk about young wives and mothers being keepers at home&#8230;well, the church is starving for service, and stay at home moms are so available. Volunteers are over-worked, b/c we&#8217;re *all* busy!</p>
<p>I love our church, and how organized it is&#8230;but sometimes I wonder if we&#8217;re all so involved w/in the building that outreach is something none of us have the time or energy for&#8230;</p>
<p><abbr><em>Marys last blog post..<a href="http://homesteepedhope.com/2009/01/01/start-the-new-year-off-right-with-daily-bible-reading/">Start the New Year off right with daily Bible reading</a></em></abbr></p>
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		<title>By: Rachel</title>
		<link>http://www.minthegap.com/2009/01/06/have-you-had-enough/comment-page-1/#comment-83726</link>
		<dc:creator>Rachel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Jan 2009 18:06:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.minthegap.com/2009/01/06/have-you-had-enough/#comment-83726</guid>
		<description>OK, I&#039;m going to try to write what I put yesterday and if it doesn&#039;t take it this time then I give up!  :)

I have to work hard not to fall into groups #2 &amp; 3.  Sometimes it&#039;s really hard being one of the few who do the work, and I found myself headed quickly for burnout.  My pastor made a great illustration about the difference between a candle and a lamp: a candle burns of its own self but a lamp is fueled by an outside source.  I realized that I needed to be filled in order to pour out.  So I cut back on youth ministry to just Wednesday nights and weekend activities (ie. Friday or Saturday stuff), whereas I had been teaching twice a week plus doing all the extracurriculars.  So now I go to the sermon on Sundays and it&#039;s been so good for me and my ministry.

What&#039;s ironic is that in making the decision to cut back ministry-wise, I rediscovered the joy of the Gospel because I was so hungry for it.  It has had a positive impact on my ministry; in His presence I find fullness of joy and then I am able to pour out to the youth group.

&lt;abbr&gt;&lt;em&gt;Rachels last blog post..&lt;a href=&quot;http://afuturepastorswife.blogspot.com/2009/01/mini-hiatus.html&quot;&gt;Mini-Hiatus&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/abbr&gt;&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OK, I&#8217;m going to try to write what I put yesterday and if it doesn&#8217;t take it this time then I give up!  <img src='http://www.minthegap.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>I have to work hard not to fall into groups #2 &amp; 3.  Sometimes it&#8217;s really hard being one of the few who do the work, and I found myself headed quickly for burnout.  My pastor made a great illustration about the difference between a candle and a lamp: a candle burns of its own self but a lamp is fueled by an outside source.  I realized that I needed to be filled in order to pour out.  So I cut back on youth ministry to just Wednesday nights and weekend activities (ie. Friday or Saturday stuff), whereas I had been teaching twice a week plus doing all the extracurriculars.  So now I go to the sermon on Sundays and it&#8217;s been so good for me and my ministry.</p>
<p>What&#8217;s ironic is that in making the decision to cut back ministry-wise, I rediscovered the joy of the Gospel because I was so hungry for it.  It has had a positive impact on my ministry; in His presence I find fullness of joy and then I am able to pour out to the youth group.</p>
<p><abbr><em>Rachels last blog post..<a href="http://afuturepastorswife.blogspot.com/2009/01/mini-hiatus.html">Mini-Hiatus</a></em></abbr></p>
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		<title>By: Erin</title>
		<link>http://www.minthegap.com/2009/01/06/have-you-had-enough/comment-page-1/#comment-83725</link>
		<dc:creator>Erin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Jan 2009 15:22:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.minthegap.com/2009/01/06/have-you-had-enough/#comment-83725</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the reminder! Great post, MIn.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the reminder! Great post, MIn.</p>
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