Comments on: What’s Wrong With The Church? http://www.minthegap.com/2008/04/14/whats-wrong-with-the-church/ Standing in the Gap in a Society that's Warring with God. Thu, 20 Nov 2008 14:21:59 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=abc By: AG http://www.minthegap.com/2008/04/14/whats-wrong-with-the-church/#comment-80573 AG Mon, 21 Apr 2008 21:06:04 +0000 http://www.minthegap.com/2008/04/14/whats-wrong-with-the-church/#comment-80573 "Now off to look at AG’s blog." Aw, thanks! AGs last blog post..<a href="http://talmidah-b-yeshua.blogspot.com/2008/04/shout-to-lord.html">Shout to the Lord</a> “Now off to look at AG’s blog.”

Aw, thanks!

AGs last blog post..Shout to the Lord

]]> By: Rebecca http://www.minthegap.com/2008/04/14/whats-wrong-with-the-church/#comment-80572 Rebecca Mon, 21 Apr 2008 19:17:58 +0000 http://www.minthegap.com/2008/04/14/whats-wrong-with-the-church/#comment-80572 Sorry! RLF = real life friend. Another idea that relates to this came up in the sermon yesterday and that is: worship through testimonies. Our church rarely features testimonies in the worship service, but it would so helpful in just modeling to people how to talk about the awesome things they see God doing. Now off to look at AG's blog. :) Sorry! RLF = real life friend.

Another idea that relates to this came up in the sermon yesterday and that is: worship through testimonies. Our church rarely features testimonies in the worship service, but it would so helpful in just modeling to people how to talk about the awesome things they see God doing.

Now off to look at AG’s blog. :)

]]> By: AG http://www.minthegap.com/2008/04/14/whats-wrong-with-the-church/#comment-80568 AG Mon, 21 Apr 2008 05:15:00 +0000 http://www.minthegap.com/2008/04/14/whats-wrong-with-the-church/#comment-80568 What does RLF stand for? OH MY GOSH, GOD IS SO GOOD! Rebecca, you're right on about complacency. And boy, has God done a number on me this weekend! Let's just say I have a new fire under my butt and I'm seeing Him work in various people around me the same way. I think we're on the forefront of a revolution. God is calling His people to step up like never before! Hallelujah! AGs last blog post..<a href="http://talmidah-b-yeshua.blogspot.com/2008/04/shout-to-lord.html">Shout to the Lord</a> What does RLF stand for?

OH MY GOSH, GOD IS SO GOOD!

Rebecca, you’re right on about complacency. And boy, has God done a number on me this weekend! Let’s just say I have a new fire under my butt and I’m seeing Him work in various people around me the same way. I think we’re on the forefront of a revolution. God is calling His people to step up like never before!

Hallelujah!

AGs last blog post..Shout to the Lord

]]> By: MInTheGap http://www.minthegap.com/2008/04/14/whats-wrong-with-the-church/#comment-80561 MInTheGap Sun, 20 Apr 2008 03:48:42 +0000 http://www.minthegap.com/2008/04/14/whats-wrong-with-the-church/#comment-80561 @Rebecca: Or that time is relegated to Wednesday night and people are too concerned about their image to actually share. I believe that if we really wanted to see God work, we'd stop our little strategic planning meetings and programs and start looking to see what God is doing in our area and join Him in that, and drop the phony Christian facade and be true to our fellow church members. @Rebecca: Or that time is relegated to Wednesday night and people are too concerned about their image to actually share. I believe that if we really wanted to see God work, we’d stop our little strategic planning meetings and programs and start looking to see what God is doing in our area and join Him in that, and drop the phony Christian facade and be true to our fellow church members.

]]> By: Rebecca http://www.minthegap.com/2008/04/14/whats-wrong-with-the-church/#comment-80560 Rebecca Sun, 20 Apr 2008 02:08:06 +0000 http://www.minthegap.com/2008/04/14/whats-wrong-with-the-church/#comment-80560 "The church is for the believer. It was never intended to be an evangelistic tool." You are so right! And, sadly, I have to agree with MamaArcher too (not surprising, since we are RLFs). Just off the top of my head, I think our lack of love toward one another stems from our complacency. In other words, if it was really important to live out God's instructions to us, we would see one another as team mates, not inconveniences. One thing I think would be different in a church that was really loving each other I believe is more of a cause than an effect: more processing ideas with each other. We sit in church multiple times a week and hear great messages, then leave and do nothing about it. There's never time to share our concerns with one another and to pray together. Off soapbox. Good topic! Rebeccas last blog post..<a href="http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/TheSpaceBetweenMyPeers/~3/273823784/">Splendid Weekend Reads for April 19 & 20</a> “The church is for the believer. It was never intended to be an evangelistic tool.”

You are so right! And, sadly, I have to agree with MamaArcher too (not surprising, since we are RLFs).

Just off the top of my head, I think our lack of love toward one another stems from our complacency. In other words, if it was really important to live out God’s instructions to us, we would see one another as team mates, not inconveniences.

One thing I think would be different in a church that was really loving each other I believe is more of a cause than an effect: more processing ideas with each other. We sit in church multiple times a week and hear great messages, then leave and do nothing about it. There’s never time to share our concerns with one another and to pray together.

Off soapbox. Good topic!

Rebeccas last blog post..Splendid Weekend Reads for April 19 & 20

]]> By: AG http://www.minthegap.com/2008/04/14/whats-wrong-with-the-church/#comment-80503 AG Wed, 16 Apr 2008 14:56:09 +0000 http://www.minthegap.com/2008/04/14/whats-wrong-with-the-church/#comment-80503 I suppose I see the church as less of an entity than you do. To me, I am the church. You are the church. Amanda is the church. MamaArcher is the church. If you create an organization and put people in charge of growing the members, when are they focused on evangelism? Intead, every one of us should focus on building ourselves and each other up in the faith, pushing each other toward christlikeness, and witnessing to unbelievers all the time. <em>AG's last blog post..<a href='http://talmidah-b-yeshua.blogspot.com/2008/04/shout-to-lord.html'>Shout to the Lord</a></em> I suppose I see the church as less of an entity than you do. To me, I am the church. You are the church. Amanda is the church. MamaArcher is the church. If you create an organization and put people in charge of growing the members, when are they focused on evangelism?

Intead, every one of us should focus on building ourselves and each other up in the faith, pushing each other toward christlikeness, and witnessing to unbelievers all the time.

AG’s last blog post..Shout to the Lord

]]> By: MInTheGap http://www.minthegap.com/2008/04/14/whats-wrong-with-the-church/#comment-80492 MInTheGap Wed, 16 Apr 2008 12:48:58 +0000 http://www.minthegap.com/2008/04/14/whats-wrong-with-the-church/#comment-80492 If you look at the Great Commission you see that the focus of it was to go out and make disciples. This is what I see the primary mission of the church to be. If you look at Jesus ministry, he spent a lot of time equipping His disciples, and then sent them out. Same thing with churches. The church should be there to build up the Christian, to teach him what honors God, and then to equip him to go out and make disciples. I don't believe that you can have a strong church that is not making disciples. If you look at the Great Commission you see that the focus of it was to go out and make disciples. This is what I see the primary mission of the church to be. If you look at Jesus ministry, he spent a lot of time equipping His disciples, and then sent them out. Same thing with churches. The church should be there to build up the Christian, to teach him what honors God, and then to equip him to go out and make disciples. I don’t believe that you can have a strong church that is not making disciples.

]]> By: AG http://www.minthegap.com/2008/04/14/whats-wrong-with-the-church/#comment-80477 AG Wed, 16 Apr 2008 03:13:04 +0000 http://www.minthegap.com/2008/04/14/whats-wrong-with-the-church/#comment-80477 I see your point. I take things a step further. I'm terrible at evangelising, but am trying to improve, so some of what I believe is hypocritical of how I act. But I believe everything we do should have two purposes: 1) Bring glory to God. 2) Bring God to the unbeliever. Even the church should focus on maturing and equipping its believers, not just to have a strong church, but so its believers reach out. <em>AG's last blog post..<a href='http://talmidah-b-yeshua.blogspot.com/2008/04/fireball.html'>Fireball</a></em> I see your point. I take things a step further. I’m terrible at evangelising, but am trying to improve, so some of what I believe is hypocritical of how I act. But I believe everything we do should have two purposes: 1) Bring glory to God. 2) Bring God to the unbeliever. Even the church should focus on maturing and equipping its believers, not just to have a strong church, but so its believers reach out.

AG’s last blog post..Fireball

]]> By: MInTheGap http://www.minthegap.com/2008/04/14/whats-wrong-with-the-church/#comment-80465 MInTheGap Tue, 15 Apr 2008 20:50:24 +0000 http://www.minthegap.com/2008/04/14/whats-wrong-with-the-church/#comment-80465 There's a fine line between a personal attitude and a church's position. That's one of the reasons I had trouble with the whole <a href="http://www.minthegap.com/2008/04/11/should-we-be-sorry/">church giving an apology</a>. The pastor in that case had it completely backwards in my opinion. He was saying that he personally had a set of beliefs, but that the church was wrong to stand in judgment when I believe it's the exact opposite. In my dealings with the unsaved and with those of different denominations I am to show mercy, love, grace and compassion. But the church has to stand for Christ's holiness. Not that I personally will take a different stand, but the church was never commissioned to go out and take care of the poor-- the Christian was. When they served the widows in Acts, they served the church's widows. Does this mean we should not have charities? Certainly not. What it does mean is that there is a division between what the church was to do and what the Christian was to do. I am beginning to believe more and more what I heard once, which is this: The church is for the believer. It was never intended to be an evangelistic tool. Going one step further, I think that the church became the evangelistic tool about the time Christians stopped personally witnessing. It was so much easier to create programs to bring people to the church than to live the Christian life and share the Gospel. I personally believe that this is part of the reason that the church of Jesus Christ is having trouble in America today. It's not that the message doesn't work. It isn't that God doesn't change lives. It's that the people of God have abdicated their responsibility to witness to the church, and then wonder why people won't come to the church to hear the message. There’s a fine line between a personal attitude and a church’s position. That’s one of the reasons I had trouble with the whole church giving an apology. The pastor in that case had it completely backwards in my opinion. He was saying that he personally had a set of beliefs, but that the church was wrong to stand in judgment when I believe it’s the exact opposite. In my dealings with the unsaved and with those of different denominations I am to show mercy, love, grace and compassion. But the church has to stand for Christ’s holiness.

Not that I personally will take a different stand, but the church was never commissioned to go out and take care of the poor– the Christian was. When they served the widows in Acts, they served the church’s widows. Does this mean we should not have charities? Certainly not. What it does mean is that there is a division between what the church was to do and what the Christian was to do.

I am beginning to believe more and more what I heard once, which is this: The church is for the believer. It was never intended to be an evangelistic tool.

Going one step further, I think that the church became the evangelistic tool about the time Christians stopped personally witnessing. It was so much easier to create programs to bring people to the church than to live the Christian life and share the Gospel. I personally believe that this is part of the reason that the church of Jesus Christ is having trouble in America today. It’s not that the message doesn’t work. It isn’t that God doesn’t change lives. It’s that the people of God have abdicated their responsibility to witness to the church, and then wonder why people won’t come to the church to hear the message.

]]> By: AG http://www.minthegap.com/2008/04/14/whats-wrong-with-the-church/#comment-80459 AG Tue, 15 Apr 2008 19:43:36 +0000 http://www.minthegap.com/2008/04/14/whats-wrong-with-the-church/#comment-80459 Right, and so for those people who believe in head coverings, I'm not going to argue with them and tell them they're not necessary. I go back and forth with baptism, but on those days when I believe it's only a symbol, I won't get on the cases of those who believe it to be necessary. It's not worth dividing the body of Christ. <em>AG's last blog post..<a href='http://talmidah-b-yeshua.blogspot.com/2008/04/fireball.html'>Fireball</a></em> Right, and so for those people who believe in head coverings, I’m not going to argue with them and tell them they’re not necessary.

I go back and forth with baptism, but on those days when I believe it’s only a symbol, I won’t get on the cases of those who believe it to be necessary.

It’s not worth dividing the body of Christ.

AG’s last blog post..Fireball

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