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	<title>Comments on: Is There a Benefit to Equality in Education?</title>
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	<link>http://www.minthegap.com/2007/11/28/is-there-a-benefit-to-equality-in-education/</link>
	<description>Standing in the Gap in a Society that's Warring with God.</description>
	<pubDate>Wed, 07 Jan 2009 21:35:35 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: MInTheGap</title>
		<link>http://www.minthegap.com/2007/11/28/is-there-a-benefit-to-equality-in-education/comment-page-1/#comment-78211</link>
		<dc:creator>MInTheGap</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Dec 2007 16:55:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.minthegap.com/2007/11/28/is-there-a-benefit-to-equality-in-education/#comment-78211</guid>
		<description>Check out out the &lt;a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charter_schools"&gt;Wikipedia Entry on Charter Schools&lt;/a&gt;.  Basically, fewer regulations, publically funded, but they need to produce certain results.

As for private schools, if you stopped taxing people for public schools, or funneled the money that would have gone to the public schools as vouchers for education, then the parents would have the option of choosing whatever school they wanted, and thus they could choose private schools, which would then be able to pay their teachers more, etc.  Part of the problem with private schooling in the U.S. now is that you pay for both public school through property tax and whatever other option you want to have-- you pay twice.  Talk about unfair.

I think that all schooling is a risk/reward venture.  Increase the possibility of risk, increase the reward.  The most risk is in homeschooling because it's up to the parents, but you also have the smartest kids coming out of it.  

Unfortunately, I'm not sure anymore if the public school system is the least risk-- since so many are graduating without even knowing how to read.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Check out out the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charter_schools">Wikipedia Entry on Charter Schools</a>.  Basically, fewer regulations, publically funded, but they need to produce certain results.</p>
<p>As for private schools, if you stopped taxing people for public schools, or funneled the money that would have gone to the public schools as vouchers for education, then the parents would have the option of choosing whatever school they wanted, and thus they could choose private schools, which would then be able to pay their teachers more, etc.  Part of the problem with private schooling in the U.S. now is that you pay for both public school through property tax and whatever other option you want to have&#8211; you pay twice.  Talk about unfair.</p>
<p>I think that all schooling is a risk/reward venture.  Increase the possibility of risk, increase the reward.  The most risk is in homeschooling because it&#8217;s up to the parents, but you also have the smartest kids coming out of it.  </p>
<p>Unfortunately, I&#8217;m not sure anymore if the public school system is the least risk&#8211; since so many are graduating without even knowing how to read.</p>
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		<title>By: Loc</title>
		<link>http://www.minthegap.com/2007/11/28/is-there-a-benefit-to-equality-in-education/comment-page-1/#comment-78208</link>
		<dc:creator>Loc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Dec 2007 15:15:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.minthegap.com/2007/11/28/is-there-a-benefit-to-equality-in-education/#comment-78208</guid>
		<description>I'm not sure exactly what Charter schools are, could you please explain.

As for private schools, what about those that can't afford it.  If both parents are working jobs just to put food on the table can they really afford to send their kids to costly private schools?

And homeschooling, as one who was homeschooled and whoes friends were homeschooled, I can say this is not the best option.  Sure for those who parent are really into it, it is one of the best forms of education.  But for those that really don't want to teach seven subjects a day (they love their children but educating is not their passion) the children get gipped of their education.  If the parents don't want to teach then the children won't learn in homeschooling.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not sure exactly what Charter schools are, could you please explain.</p>
<p>As for private schools, what about those that can&#8217;t afford it.  If both parents are working jobs just to put food on the table can they really afford to send their kids to costly private schools?</p>
<p>And homeschooling, as one who was homeschooled and whoes friends were homeschooled, I can say this is not the best option.  Sure for those who parent are really into it, it is one of the best forms of education.  But for those that really don&#8217;t want to teach seven subjects a day (they love their children but educating is not their passion) the children get gipped of their education.  If the parents don&#8217;t want to teach then the children won&#8217;t learn in homeschooling.</p>
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		<title>By: MInTheGap</title>
		<link>http://www.minthegap.com/2007/11/28/is-there-a-benefit-to-equality-in-education/comment-page-1/#comment-78206</link>
		<dc:creator>MInTheGap</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Dec 2007 14:57:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.minthegap.com/2007/11/28/is-there-a-benefit-to-equality-in-education/#comment-78206</guid>
		<description>It depends.  If the broken system is driving us into the ground, do you continue to use it?  I agree that there needs to be some transition, but pretty much anything would be better.  Charter schools, private schools-- even homeschooling (the greatest form of parental involvement) have proven to turn out better educated children, and also give parents a chance to choose the morality their children will be exposed to.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It depends.  If the broken system is driving us into the ground, do you continue to use it?  I agree that there needs to be some transition, but pretty much anything would be better.  Charter schools, private schools&#8211; even homeschooling (the greatest form of parental involvement) have proven to turn out better educated children, and also give parents a chance to choose the morality their children will be exposed to.</p>
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		<title>By: Loc</title>
		<link>http://www.minthegap.com/2007/11/28/is-there-a-benefit-to-equality-in-education/comment-page-1/#comment-78203</link>
		<dc:creator>Loc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Dec 2007 14:42:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.minthegap.com/2007/11/28/is-there-a-benefit-to-equality-in-education/#comment-78203</guid>
		<description>Its all very well and good to say we need a new system, but we need a suggestion for what the new system will be before we through out the old.  Even a broken system is better than none at all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Its all very well and good to say we need a new system, but we need a suggestion for what the new system will be before we through out the old.  Even a broken system is better than none at all.</p>
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		<title>By: MInTheGap</title>
		<link>http://www.minthegap.com/2007/11/28/is-there-a-benefit-to-equality-in-education/comment-page-1/#comment-78188</link>
		<dc:creator>MInTheGap</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Dec 2007 20:15:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.minthegap.com/2007/11/28/is-there-a-benefit-to-equality-in-education/#comment-78188</guid>
		<description>Loc, I think you're spot on in your second paragraph above, and that's why I believe that public school is broken and needs to be scrapped for some other plan.  It was one thing when America had a common moral fiber and foundation in Biblical truth.  One could then teach Christian ethics, Christian morality, etc. and there was a common fiber.  If America is going to continue down this path toward multiculturalism (including varying religions, moral codes, etc) then having all the same children in the same class will not work.  (Let alone, I tend to agree with Pat Buchanan that if we continue on this path we will lose our national identity.)

So, it's time to come up with a new system that doesn't have the problem traditional public schooling has-- one that allows for the diverse opinions and strong education without having to compromise the parent's beliefs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Loc, I think you&#8217;re spot on in your second paragraph above, and that&#8217;s why I believe that public school is broken and needs to be scrapped for some other plan.  It was one thing when America had a common moral fiber and foundation in Biblical truth.  One could then teach Christian ethics, Christian morality, etc. and there was a common fiber.  If America is going to continue down this path toward multiculturalism (including varying religions, moral codes, etc) then having all the same children in the same class will not work.  (Let alone, I tend to agree with Pat Buchanan that if we continue on this path we will lose our national identity.)</p>
<p>So, it&#8217;s time to come up with a new system that doesn&#8217;t have the problem traditional public schooling has&#8211; one that allows for the diverse opinions and strong education without having to compromise the parent&#8217;s beliefs.</p>
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		<title>By: Loc</title>
		<link>http://www.minthegap.com/2007/11/28/is-there-a-benefit-to-equality-in-education/comment-page-1/#comment-78181</link>
		<dc:creator>Loc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Dec 2007 14:57:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.minthegap.com/2007/11/28/is-there-a-benefit-to-equality-in-education/#comment-78181</guid>
		<description>Egads, I really need to check in here more often. You guys picked up the debate and ran off without me.

Leticia, the school's main job is to teach and they can only teach if the environment is right for teaching.  This is why some public schools ban physical contact while on school grounds.  They want kids to be learning instead of trying to get their groove on with the opposite sex.  This is also why schools try to teach tolerance.  If a child is thinking about bashing some other poor kids face in because his parents are gay, they are not thinking about learning (Yes, I understand you don’t teach you children to try and kill gay people, but some parents teach hatred and then don’t teach how you are not supposed to kill people you dislike).  I know you don’t like schools to teach morals, but it is necessary for them to maintain a healthy environment for learning.

Also when you say that schools should stick to teaching history, mathematics, Literature, science etc., you’re forgetting a major problem with any subject.  Mathematics being the only exception, everything taught in schools is controversial.  History, did the holocaust happen or did it not, was America a Christian nation or was it not, and the list goes on.  Everything in history is up to interpretation.  Literature, is the Tolkien series a major literary achievement deserving to be read or not, Dune does it need to be read or not, there are a couple books nearly every one agrees on but most literature’s worth are in controversy.  Science, do I even have to point out the debate here?  So, should we limit schools to only teaching mathematics.  That is the only non-controversial subject.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Egads, I really need to check in here more often. You guys picked up the debate and ran off without me.</p>
<p>Leticia, the school&#8217;s main job is to teach and they can only teach if the environment is right for teaching.  This is why some public schools ban physical contact while on school grounds.  They want kids to be learning instead of trying to get their groove on with the opposite sex.  This is also why schools try to teach tolerance.  If a child is thinking about bashing some other poor kids face in because his parents are gay, they are not thinking about learning (Yes, I understand you don’t teach you children to try and kill gay people, but some parents teach hatred and then don’t teach how you are not supposed to kill people you dislike).  I know you don’t like schools to teach morals, but it is necessary for them to maintain a healthy environment for learning.</p>
<p>Also when you say that schools should stick to teaching history, mathematics, Literature, science etc., you’re forgetting a major problem with any subject.  Mathematics being the only exception, everything taught in schools is controversial.  History, did the holocaust happen or did it not, was America a Christian nation or was it not, and the list goes on.  Everything in history is up to interpretation.  Literature, is the Tolkien series a major literary achievement deserving to be read or not, Dune does it need to be read or not, there are a couple books nearly every one agrees on but most literature’s worth are in controversy.  Science, do I even have to point out the debate here?  So, should we limit schools to only teaching mathematics.  That is the only non-controversial subject.</p>
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		<title>By: Musicguy</title>
		<link>http://www.minthegap.com/2007/11/28/is-there-a-benefit-to-equality-in-education/comment-page-1/#comment-78113</link>
		<dc:creator>Musicguy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Dec 2007 05:26:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.minthegap.com/2007/11/28/is-there-a-benefit-to-equality-in-education/#comment-78113</guid>
		<description>"history (accurately, without biased opinions)"

Leticia, do you realize that this is impossible, as you'll not find a consensus among varying groups regarding US history? Just look at the comments in this post.  Min and I totally don't agree in regards to the intent of the founding fathers.  How on earth are schools supposed to be unbaised?  unbaised according to whom?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;history (accurately, without biased opinions)&#8221;</p>
<p>Leticia, do you realize that this is impossible, as you&#8217;ll not find a consensus among varying groups regarding US history? Just look at the comments in this post.  Min and I totally don&#8217;t agree in regards to the intent of the founding fathers.  How on earth are schools supposed to be unbaised?  unbaised according to whom?</p>
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		<title>By: Leticia</title>
		<link>http://www.minthegap.com/2007/11/28/is-there-a-benefit-to-equality-in-education/comment-page-1/#comment-78107</link>
		<dc:creator>Leticia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Nov 2007 23:36:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.minthegap.com/2007/11/28/is-there-a-benefit-to-equality-in-education/#comment-78107</guid>
		<description>There are a lot of things that I truly disagree upon that our schools are trying to teach our children, homosexuality is one huge topic that I feel has no place in a public or private school.

Schools should stick with teaching what they were meant to teach, history (accurately, without biased opinions) mathematics, Literature, science etc.  It is not their job to teach my children morality and about Christianity.  That's my JOB. I am the one who is responsible in teaching them about morality and about our Precious Savior.  I am the one who will teach them about the bible and our Christian beliefs.

Yes, I would love for public schools to teach these things, but in this day and age it will never happen, unless of course, your child attends a private Christian school.

God blessed me with my children and it is my duty, my responsibility to raise them as the bible teaches me.

I cannot and will not entrust anyone with that duty, no way.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are a lot of things that I truly disagree upon that our schools are trying to teach our children, homosexuality is one huge topic that I feel has no place in a public or private school.</p>
<p>Schools should stick with teaching what they were meant to teach, history (accurately, without biased opinions) mathematics, Literature, science etc.  It is not their job to teach my children morality and about Christianity.  That&#8217;s my JOB. I am the one who is responsible in teaching them about morality and about our Precious Savior.  I am the one who will teach them about the bible and our Christian beliefs.</p>
<p>Yes, I would love for public schools to teach these things, but in this day and age it will never happen, unless of course, your child attends a private Christian school.</p>
<p>God blessed me with my children and it is my duty, my responsibility to raise them as the bible teaches me.</p>
<p>I cannot and will not entrust anyone with that duty, no way.</p>
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		<title>By: MInTheGap</title>
		<link>http://www.minthegap.com/2007/11/28/is-there-a-benefit-to-equality-in-education/comment-page-1/#comment-78095</link>
		<dc:creator>MInTheGap</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Nov 2007 14:57:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.minthegap.com/2007/11/28/is-there-a-benefit-to-equality-in-education/#comment-78095</guid>
		<description>Musicguy I think that you and I have different approaches, different worldviews, and perhaps different questions that we are trying to answer.  From the beginning of this post, I have talked about how public school education (indeed any education that has a captive audience and forced curricula) leads to the creation of drones rather than free thinkers.  I believe that what you observe and declare as "dancing around a question without truly answering it" I would categorize as "attempting to stay on topic."

The question that I answered was "Is it the Christians that are trying to take over the nation, or is it the secularists?"  You and Loc were positing the former, I posited the latter and provided documentation to support my case.  You have not proved your side, as I see it.

Further, I offer a &lt;a href="http://www.opinionjournal.com/taste/?id=110010930"&gt;Wall Street Journal article that talks about "In God We Trust" on our currency&lt;/a&gt; with this interesting quote:
&lt;blockquote&gt;"Dear Sir, One fact touching our currency has hitherto been seriously overlooked. I mean the recognition of the Almighty God in some form on our coins. You are probably a Christian. What if our Republic were now shattered beyond reconstruction? Would not the antiquaries of succeeding centuries rightly reason from our past that we were a heathen nation?"&lt;/blockquote&gt;
It was important around the time of the founding that future generations indeed know that we were a Christian nation.  I would not have a problem agreeing that we are moving toward being more of a secular nation.  I would also credit this toward public schooling (the point of the post).  The nation has been changed because we have an entire generation that believes something very different from and about their founders.

How many of your students know that there were established churches in the states at the time of the Declaration of Independence and Constitution?  How many know about the fact that the government paid for religious schools to be built, states funded different churches, and that people actually believed, lived, and were influenced by their faith and belief?  And how many know that it was Christians that were abolitionists?  How many can name the current Justices of the Supreme Court, or understand the electoral college and why it's important?  How many know that we're a Republic and not a Democracy-- and why the founders didn't want a democracy?

We don't know our history-- and I don't blame the kids.  To some degree I don't even blame the teachers-- but we're actively trying to erase our past and create a generation that knows nothing about who we were.  That should be something that's at least a little unnerving.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Musicguy I think that you and I have different approaches, different worldviews, and perhaps different questions that we are trying to answer.  From the beginning of this post, I have talked about how public school education (indeed any education that has a captive audience and forced curricula) leads to the creation of drones rather than free thinkers.  I believe that what you observe and declare as &#8220;dancing around a question without truly answering it&#8221; I would categorize as &#8220;attempting to stay on topic.&#8221;</p>
<p>The question that I answered was &#8220;Is it the Christians that are trying to take over the nation, or is it the secularists?&#8221;  You and Loc were positing the former, I posited the latter and provided documentation to support my case.  You have not proved your side, as I see it.</p>
<p>Further, I offer a <a href="http://www.opinionjournal.com/taste/?id=110010930">Wall Street Journal article that talks about &#8220;In God We Trust&#8221; on our currency</a> with this interesting quote:</p>
<blockquote><p>&#8220;Dear Sir, One fact touching our currency has hitherto been seriously overlooked. I mean the recognition of the Almighty God in some form on our coins. You are probably a Christian. What if our Republic were now shattered beyond reconstruction? Would not the antiquaries of succeeding centuries rightly reason from our past that we were a heathen nation?&#8221;</p></blockquote>
<p>It was important around the time of the founding that future generations indeed know that we were a Christian nation.  I would not have a problem agreeing that we are moving toward being more of a secular nation.  I would also credit this toward public schooling (the point of the post).  The nation has been changed because we have an entire generation that believes something very different from and about their founders.</p>
<p>How many of your students know that there were established churches in the states at the time of the Declaration of Independence and Constitution?  How many know about the fact that the government paid for religious schools to be built, states funded different churches, and that people actually believed, lived, and were influenced by their faith and belief?  And how many know that it was Christians that were abolitionists?  How many can name the current Justices of the Supreme Court, or understand the electoral college and why it&#8217;s important?  How many know that we&#8217;re a Republic and not a Democracy&#8211; and why the founders didn&#8217;t want a democracy?</p>
<p>We don&#8217;t know our history&#8211; and I don&#8217;t blame the kids.  To some degree I don&#8217;t even blame the teachers&#8211; but we&#8217;re actively trying to erase our past and create a generation that knows nothing about who we were.  That should be something that&#8217;s at least a little unnerving.</p>
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		<title>By: Musicguy</title>
		<link>http://www.minthegap.com/2007/11/28/is-there-a-benefit-to-equality-in-education/comment-page-1/#comment-78089</link>
		<dc:creator>Musicguy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Nov 2007 13:13:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.minthegap.com/2007/11/28/is-there-a-benefit-to-equality-in-education/#comment-78089</guid>
		<description>"I believe I’ve effectively made this point and that it is the secularists that are changing the nation, not the Christians."

Yeah, and the abolitionists moved us AWAY from a nation that accepted slavery.  Again, not everything from the start of this country was a good thing.

Min, when you get sick of the computer thing, try politics.  You can dance around a question, load it with extraneous info, and never truly answer it.  It's a skill that I admire, even though it's exasperating to debate with you.  However, I'm confident that I'm learning from the best!

(Sarcasm NOT intended)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I believe I’ve effectively made this point and that it is the secularists that are changing the nation, not the Christians.&#8221;</p>
<p>Yeah, and the abolitionists moved us AWAY from a nation that accepted slavery.  Again, not everything from the start of this country was a good thing.</p>
<p>Min, when you get sick of the computer thing, try politics.  You can dance around a question, load it with extraneous info, and never truly answer it.  It&#8217;s a skill that I admire, even though it&#8217;s exasperating to debate with you.  However, I&#8217;m confident that I&#8217;m learning from the best!</p>
<p>(Sarcasm NOT intended)</p>
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