Comments on: In The New Testament, It Was Demon Possession

By: George

George — Mon, 28 Apr 2008 07:10:39 +0000

and again going back to connie, who is she, do we have any proof that she is a real person? What if she is a robot, spamming around in cyberspace, what if she is just writing to just agree with you, and not because she really suffered from MI and believed it had anything to do with demons.
On the other hand I have crucially relevant proof, such as the Gospel of John, science, the Jesus Seminar, books written about Biblical study, and finally the last chip of the puzzle, Barry a far more serious source then connie, first since he doesn’t take any side, second because his name is more accurate, and third because he actually took the time to write in paragraphs, and write a fairly big comment, which robots don’t do these days for you Min.
So for the third time, I definitely think it is case closed
Georges last blog post..The Gospel of Prosperity, what to expect

By: George

George — Mon, 28 Apr 2008 06:59:41 +0000

Thanks for lol-ing me Min… but the point is i cannot consider connie as viable evidence unless she has proof that somebody cast out the demons from her, because I believe we both agree they don’t just fly away right? And if you talk to her/know her tell her that I want to meet the guy that freed her from the demons… you know, I will ask him for a check-up, lest I am demonized too (hmmm)… but the idea is though Min, any way you look at it, this case is closed and clearly in my favor
Georges last blog post..The Gospel of Prosperity, what to expect

By: MInTheGap

MInTheGap — Mon, 28 Apr 2008 00:51:49 +0000

@Barry: Thank you for commenting. I opened the discussion on this topic because I’m truly curious about it. I appreciate you sharing what’s going on with you and your illness. My sympathies are with you and your family, and I’m grateful that our God is able to provide for us in the hardest of trials.

@George: LOL. Of course you’d like to call this case closed. You didn’t want to close it when connie stated that she suffered from it and believed that it was demonic possession.

To both of you– two points.

One: Each and every case is different. What I’m coming now to think is that some mental illness can be just that, but that others might be demon possession. I would find it hard to rule it out based on the Scripture.

Two: Personally, I know of no one now that truly has the gift of healing like those that did in the New Testament period. People were coming back from the dead, being healed from all types of life long diseases, etc. That’s not happening now.

By: George

George — Sun, 27 Apr 2008 23:46:02 +0000

As I said before Min and Barry, there is too much proof against the idea of demonization, which is deeply rooted in Jewish beliefs of the Old Testament and the early Church. Let us not forget that the people that wrote the Gospels had the ideas of the time in them, and therefore we need to study the social construct of the time to fully understand their words and what they mean by them.

As Barry clearly explained in his comment has has suffered mental illness for 28 years and clearly neither he nor I think that that was caused by any demon playing around, nor was he cured from any saint or anything like that.

So I would call this case closed Min
S

Georges last blog post..Darwinism and Christianity

By: Barry K

Barry K — Fri, 25 Apr 2008 19:45:25 +0000

I think we need to bear in mind that mental illness is a disease just like any other. The evangelical church still reists this medical reality however, as there’s this urban myth abroad about beating back every life difficulty with a simple prayer (so can they pray away the onset of Heart attacks or CVA’s? - five gets you then they can’t for some strange reason.)

Plus they can’t tolerate the fact that medicine is a qualified opinion, as opposed to the group hysteria that can conceivably occur when a mentally ill person, meets apparently sanctified christianity on this issue, which sometimes says the most hurtful things (in the name of compassion and mercy) to sufferers, such as..’snap out of it’…’you’re not really ill’…’you’re oppressed by demons’ or…You’re not co-operating with our prayers/showing enough faith.’ This last answer tends to be the most offensive, as I’ve never met any mentally ill person, who wouldn’t be rid of their disability that very second. The church folk who espouse these opinions do so (in my experience) out of wilfully unenlightened fear. They feel threatened by MI people (fear of themselves or their children being in the same boat one day) and wish to have done with them (quickly) one way or the other, subtly ignoring the fact that 1 in 4 will complain to their family physicians on this issue and if (for any reason) that’s them, then they’d want all the love and understanding that they’re sometimes reluctant to extend to others…Hmmm.

It’s important to state that this ISN’T every church person you speak to (by any manner or means), but evangelical churches are much troubled by the subject of MI and are still far too ready to ascribe its origins as demonic, although though this kind of unhelpful prejudice is being challenged and slowly the tide is turning.

This is not to say (not at all) that demons are incapable of compounding or causing mental illness, as they certainly are. However the church has to stop treating the majority of cases as demonic, when that may not be true. In fact to harp on about demons on an unwarranted ticket, can actually give glory to Satan, the churches greatest enemy on any contention. If MI people are perceived as hard work, then Christ said carrying our crosses would be far from a walk in the park, so get on with that salient fact.

Churches have to start treating MI sufferers as human beings and radically shift their attitudes…the comfortable middle-class club
mentality doesn’t assist anyone (even Christ) at the end of the day. ‘Come just as you are’ says the mantra’..problem is, when MI people do, they seem to be less than welcome and I wonder if the church really wants them.

FOOTNOTE:
I’ve been a Christian for 14 years, an MI sufferer for 28 years and I hold a postgraduate degree in a theological discipline….just before anyone starts offering alternate diagnoses of any kind

Barry K

By: MInTheGap

MInTheGap — Mon, 14 Apr 2008 14:44:46 +0000

And what I’ve been trying to say, George, is that there may be a supernatural element to Demon Possession so that it’s not as easy as saying “It’s schizophrenia or multiple personality disorder.” Neither of these scientific explanations explain the pigs, that the people said to have these possessions knew things about people that they shouldn’t have known, or that the disciples actually had conversations such as “Jesus and Paul we know, but you we don’t know.” There’s more to Demon Possession than what science says about it.

By: George

George — Sun, 13 Apr 2008 01:03:32 +0000

now min i think we have argued in vain for the last months… i do believe there is things that cannot be explained by science, such as the Trinity, the resurrection, the healing of the people that were “demonized” and much more. My argument was just that demonization should not be taken literally, but seen in the context of the story.

George’s last blog post..Darwinism and Christianity

By: MInTheGap

MInTheGap — Sun, 13 Apr 2008 00:49:51 +0000

George, you’ve consistently missed my point. What I’ve tried to say from the post forward is that science has described a condition that may have a spiritual component to it that science cannot test. So what I’m saying is that we’ve explained away with science something that may be more than a scientific ailment. We’ve been “all around Jacob’s barn” because you don’t believe that the Gospels are historical, are written by whom they claim to be, and now because one of them doesn’t include a reference to the thing happening, but all of those are red herrings. Luke, who is claimed to be a first rate historian, includes the accounts in both his Gospel and the book of Acts.

In any case, the main point was not to debate the historicity of the Bible, but to talk directly to the concept of demon possession as described in the Bible and how it pertains to different “diseases” that science describes now.

Thanks for the contact info, btw. You could include that link with your future posts in the URL box of your comments.

By: George

George — Sat, 12 Apr 2008 00:43:44 +0000

for anybody reading, i would invite you to http://www.christianityandus.blogspot.com, there you will receive more information and can request me to research and talk about anything that concerns you.

By: George

George — Sat, 12 Apr 2008 00:41:41 +0000

and just so you know Min, if demonization is scientifically true, then tell me why John, who you consider to be a first source, does not depict any demonization story????????