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	<title>Comments on: In The Old Testament, It Was a Drought</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.minthegap.com/2007/11/07/in-the-old-testament-it-was-a-drought/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.minthegap.com/2007/11/07/in-the-old-testament-it-was-a-drought/</link>
	<description>Standing in the Gap in a Society that's Warring with God.</description>
	<pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 12:03:11 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: MInTheGap</title>
		<link>http://www.minthegap.com/2007/11/07/in-the-old-testament-it-was-a-drought/#comment-78070</link>
		<dc:creator>MInTheGap</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Nov 2007 19:37:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.minthegap.com/2007/11/07/in-the-old-testament-it-was-a-drought/#comment-78070</guid>
		<description>I don't have a problem with Snarky Comments.  And feel free to abbreviate Lacrosse or even Los Angeles International Airport LAX.  However, "Sky Daddy" is more insulting than anything.

Obviously, I would rather edit than delete any comment.  I don't have a problem with differences of opinion, good debate, etc.  But I have found that name calling, etc. serves more to inflame and get personal then to actually talk about substance.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t have a problem with Snarky Comments.  And feel free to abbreviate Lacrosse or even Los Angeles International Airport LAX.  However, &#8220;Sky Daddy&#8221; is more insulting than anything.</p>
<p>Obviously, I would rather edit than delete any comment.  I don&#8217;t have a problem with differences of opinion, good debate, etc.  But I have found that name calling, etc. serves more to inflame and get personal then to actually talk about substance.</p>
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		<title>By: Musicguy</title>
		<link>http://www.minthegap.com/2007/11/07/in-the-old-testament-it-was-a-drought/#comment-78069</link>
		<dc:creator>Musicguy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Nov 2007 19:29:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.minthegap.com/2007/11/07/in-the-old-testament-it-was-a-drought/#comment-78069</guid>
		<description>I didn't mean to mock by using "xtian".  I use that quite frequently as an abbreviation when I'm typing. As for "Sky Daddy"- that's my belief. 

But since it's your blog, I'll allow you to censor all you want.  The conservative right is good at that.  Since we're approaching the x-mas season, I'll be sure to avoid that as well.  And jsut to be sure, I'll not abbreviate lacrosse by typing LAX, just to be on the safe side.

(Will snarky comments still be allowed, or will that also be banned in the new policy??)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I didn&#8217;t mean to mock by using &#8220;xtian&#8221;.  I use that quite frequently as an abbreviation when I&#8217;m typing. As for &#8220;Sky Daddy&#8221;- that&#8217;s my belief. </p>
<p>But since it&#8217;s your blog, I&#8217;ll allow you to censor all you want.  The conservative right is good at that.  Since we&#8217;re approaching the x-mas season, I&#8217;ll be sure to avoid that as well.  And jsut to be sure, I&#8217;ll not abbreviate lacrosse by typing LAX, just to be on the safe side.</p>
<p>(Will snarky comments still be allowed, or will that also be banned in the new policy??)</p>
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		<title>By: MInTheGap</title>
		<link>http://www.minthegap.com/2007/11/07/in-the-old-testament-it-was-a-drought/#comment-78067</link>
		<dc:creator>MInTheGap</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Nov 2007 19:22:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.minthegap.com/2007/11/07/in-the-old-testament-it-was-a-drought/#comment-78067</guid>
		<description>While I respect your right to disagree, and do not have a problem with your posting, Musicguy, I'm going to have to request that you remain respectful of my beliefs as I will be of yours.  That includes referring to my Creator and Savior as "some invisible Sky Daddy", and mocking the name of my belief by calling it "xtian."

On my blog, as in my house, I expect a certain level of respect and decorum, and would appreciate it if you would respect these wishes.  I will be crafting a &lt;a href="http://www.minthegap.com/comment-policy/"&gt;comment policy&lt;/a&gt; to address this, but from here on in you should expect that these types of things will constitute an edit or removal of said comments.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While I respect your right to disagree, and do not have a problem with your posting, Musicguy, I&#8217;m going to have to request that you remain respectful of my beliefs as I will be of yours.  That includes referring to my Creator and Savior as &#8220;some invisible Sky Daddy&#8221;, and mocking the name of my belief by calling it &#8220;xtian.&#8221;</p>
<p>On my blog, as in my house, I expect a certain level of respect and decorum, and would appreciate it if you would respect these wishes.  I will be crafting a <a href="http://www.minthegap.com/comment-policy/">comment policy</a> to address this, but from here on in you should expect that these types of things will constitute an edit or removal of said comments.</p>
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		<title>By: Musicguy</title>
		<link>http://www.minthegap.com/2007/11/07/in-the-old-testament-it-was-a-drought/#comment-78063</link>
		<dc:creator>Musicguy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Nov 2007 18:39:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.minthegap.com/2007/11/07/in-the-old-testament-it-was-a-drought/#comment-78063</guid>
		<description>Why do I work for them?  Purely selfish reasons:  car payment, mortgage, credit card debt, the liquor store bill.  They pay me $30K a year, for a part-time position.  It's really a no-brainer.

I love the people for the most part.  A few of them even know all about me, and what I feel about the church.  I just need to sit through some ridiculous sermons every once in a while, and deal with the pomp and circumstance.  All in all, not a bad JOB- that's all it really is, a job.

You're most certainly correct- people can learn from fables.  The difference being that the fable characters aren't going to send you to a bad place if you don't pay homage.  To me, it's like saying Santa Claus is going to give you a lump of coal.  Well, I don't believe in Santa, so I ain't worried about his lump of coal!  Likewise, I don't believe or fear some invisible Sky Daddy. My supreme being is much bigger than male/female or any ancient text you can dig up.  Nor does he care about what I eat, what I wear, or who I love.

I understand the positive thoughts idea.  I actually use that phrase quite a bit and believe in some karmic principles (WE and we alone control our destiny here on earth).

"Your breed of Christianity"- this may have been an over simplification.  What I meant was those sects of xtians who use a very literal interpretation of the bible, don't allow critical thought on any subject, think evolution is a myth (global warming for that matter too), earth is 6000 years old, etc, etc.  This breed isn't generally concerned with you being a xtian unless you abide by all their rules,edicts, and interpretations no matter how outdated or assbackwards they may seem.  In other words, it's their way or no way.  Know the type??</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why do I work for them?  Purely selfish reasons:  car payment, mortgage, credit card debt, the liquor store bill.  They pay me $30K a year, for a part-time position.  It&#8217;s really a no-brainer.</p>
<p>I love the people for the most part.  A few of them even know all about me, and what I feel about the church.  I just need to sit through some ridiculous sermons every once in a while, and deal with the pomp and circumstance.  All in all, not a bad JOB- that&#8217;s all it really is, a job.</p>
<p>You&#8217;re most certainly correct- people can learn from fables.  The difference being that the fable characters aren&#8217;t going to send you to a bad place if you don&#8217;t pay homage.  To me, it&#8217;s like saying Santa Claus is going to give you a lump of coal.  Well, I don&#8217;t believe in Santa, so I ain&#8217;t worried about his lump of coal!  Likewise, I don&#8217;t believe or fear some invisible Sky Daddy. My supreme being is much bigger than male/female or any ancient text you can dig up.  Nor does he care about what I eat, what I wear, or who I love.</p>
<p>I understand the positive thoughts idea.  I actually use that phrase quite a bit and believe in some karmic principles (WE and we alone control our destiny here on earth).</p>
<p>&#8220;Your breed of Christianity&#8221;- this may have been an over simplification.  What I meant was those sects of xtians who use a very literal interpretation of the bible, don&#8217;t allow critical thought on any subject, think evolution is a myth (global warming for that matter too), earth is 6000 years old, etc, etc.  This breed isn&#8217;t generally concerned with you being a xtian unless you abide by all their rules,edicts, and interpretations no matter how outdated or assbackwards they may seem.  In other words, it&#8217;s their way or no way.  Know the type??</p>
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		<title>By: Carol</title>
		<link>http://www.minthegap.com/2007/11/07/in-the-old-testament-it-was-a-drought/#comment-78062</link>
		<dc:creator>Carol</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Nov 2007 17:16:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.minthegap.com/2007/11/07/in-the-old-testament-it-was-a-drought/#comment-78062</guid>
		<description>Musicguy, well you're not my nephew, he won't consider any Church of any type. 
Good for you that you are at least considering going to a Church of whatever type you choose.
I was never asking you to dimiss science, only to consider God also.
I do not know what you think my "breed of Christianity" is, but I want you to know that prayer to Christians is (in my opinion) the same as putting out poistive thoughts into this wonderful world and universe of ours.
"Sky Daddy" is a silly thought,and people can still learn from "fables". I prefer to think of the Bible as the living word of God, bad translations, misprints and all. It's all in the way you are taught to understand it, sometimes incorrectly, sometimes half way, sometimes your soul just opens up and you have an "Oprah moment" and you've just got to say "I got it!'
As for those cows -- watch out, they'll sneak in when you least expect it.
On a side note, why would you continue to work for an organization that you think is full of crap?
Thank you for your thoughts. Carol</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Musicguy, well you&#8217;re not my nephew, he won&#8217;t consider any Church of any type.<br />
Good for you that you are at least considering going to a Church of whatever type you choose.<br />
I was never asking you to dimiss science, only to consider God also.<br />
I do not know what you think my &#8220;breed of Christianity&#8221; is, but I want you to know that prayer to Christians is (in my opinion) the same as putting out poistive thoughts into this wonderful world and universe of ours.<br />
&#8220;Sky Daddy&#8221; is a silly thought,and people can still learn from &#8220;fables&#8221;. I prefer to think of the Bible as the living word of God, bad translations, misprints and all. It&#8217;s all in the way you are taught to understand it, sometimes incorrectly, sometimes half way, sometimes your soul just opens up and you have an &#8220;Oprah moment&#8221; and you&#8217;ve just got to say &#8220;I got it!&#8217;<br />
As for those cows &#8212; watch out, they&#8217;ll sneak in when you least expect it.<br />
On a side note, why would you continue to work for an organization that you think is full of crap?<br />
Thank you for your thoughts. Carol</p>
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		<title>By: Musicguy</title>
		<link>http://www.minthegap.com/2007/11/07/in-the-old-testament-it-was-a-drought/#comment-78060</link>
		<dc:creator>Musicguy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Nov 2007 13:50:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.minthegap.com/2007/11/07/in-the-old-testament-it-was-a-drought/#comment-78060</guid>
		<description>Carol,

I am fully aware of what I dis-believe.  I was raised Catholic, attended parochial school for 13 years, and continue to work for the RC church today.  I think they're full of crap, and that will never change.  Once I began to think critically for myself, I was removed from the mindless masses, and I've been very happy since that day. 

Science will always win in my mind. the observable, measureable, and quantifiable can't be dismissed because of an ancient book of fables. Thankfully, there are churches that embrace differing thoughts including the belief in evolution, acceptance of homosexuality, etc. Two of these is the United Church of Christ and Unitarians. I've been in contact with them numerous times, and plan to join a Unitarian church at some point.

As I've said before, I do believe in a supreme being of some sort, but not your biblical sky daddy, with his questionable "historic" sources as evidence. That said, I have no plans to ever swallow your breed of christianity.  You can pray until the cows come home, but they tend to just bounce off me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Carol,</p>
<p>I am fully aware of what I dis-believe.  I was raised Catholic, attended parochial school for 13 years, and continue to work for the RC church today.  I think they&#8217;re full of crap, and that will never change.  Once I began to think critically for myself, I was removed from the mindless masses, and I&#8217;ve been very happy since that day. </p>
<p>Science will always win in my mind. the observable, measureable, and quantifiable can&#8217;t be dismissed because of an ancient book of fables. Thankfully, there are churches that embrace differing thoughts including the belief in evolution, acceptance of homosexuality, etc. Two of these is the United Church of Christ and Unitarians. I&#8217;ve been in contact with them numerous times, and plan to join a Unitarian church at some point.</p>
<p>As I&#8217;ve said before, I do believe in a supreme being of some sort, but not your biblical sky daddy, with his questionable &#8220;historic&#8221; sources as evidence. That said, I have no plans to ever swallow your breed of christianity.  You can pray until the cows come home, but they tend to just bounce off me.</p>
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		<title>By: Carol</title>
		<link>http://www.minthegap.com/2007/11/07/in-the-old-testament-it-was-a-drought/#comment-78057</link>
		<dc:creator>Carol</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Nov 2007 04:11:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.minthegap.com/2007/11/07/in-the-old-testament-it-was-a-drought/#comment-78057</guid>
		<description>Musicguy, are you my nephew? He has the same dig your heels in attitude. No changing his mind, no-sir-re. Stop going one the defence for just a few moments. The Lord will NOT come to a heart or soul that is not open. Expand your mind, you can not see air, but we know it's there. I do have to agree that COUNTLESS innocent people and entire races have been murdered, imprisoned, and subjugated in the name of "religion", to say nothing of the immoral conduct of many so called "church leaders". I have often wondered why God would "allow" so many terrible things to happen in the world, past and present. This past week in Church, our Pastor addressed this very issue. He said that even though we could not see it or even fathom the way of God, God had a purpose for ALL that happened. The Pastor used the actions of Joseph and his brothers as an example. This really hit home with me and it was a wonderment. I pray for you, and my greatest hope for you is that you could find a Church that would explain some of the answers to you. Think of Church as school. If you find a professor (Pastor) that could explain these things to you, your eyes would fly open with the wonder of it all. Final thought, every day in the Holy Land, archaeological information comes in to support many of the "claims", "stories" and FACTS of the Bible. Please consider attending Church. You do not have to be a "believer" to become educated, but you should at the very least, know what it is that you dis-believe. Carol</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Musicguy, are you my nephew? He has the same dig your heels in attitude. No changing his mind, no-sir-re. Stop going one the defence for just a few moments. The Lord will NOT come to a heart or soul that is not open. Expand your mind, you can not see air, but we know it&#8217;s there. I do have to agree that COUNTLESS innocent people and entire races have been murdered, imprisoned, and subjugated in the name of &#8220;religion&#8221;, to say nothing of the immoral conduct of many so called &#8220;church leaders&#8221;. I have often wondered why God would &#8220;allow&#8221; so many terrible things to happen in the world, past and present. This past week in Church, our Pastor addressed this very issue. He said that even though we could not see it or even fathom the way of God, God had a purpose for ALL that happened. The Pastor used the actions of Joseph and his brothers as an example. This really hit home with me and it was a wonderment. I pray for you, and my greatest hope for you is that you could find a Church that would explain some of the answers to you. Think of Church as school. If you find a professor (Pastor) that could explain these things to you, your eyes would fly open with the wonder of it all. Final thought, every day in the Holy Land, archaeological information comes in to support many of the &#8220;claims&#8221;, &#8220;stories&#8221; and FACTS of the Bible. Please consider attending Church. You do not have to be a &#8220;believer&#8221; to become educated, but you should at the very least, know what it is that you dis-believe. Carol</p>
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		<title>By: Musicguy</title>
		<link>http://www.minthegap.com/2007/11/07/in-the-old-testament-it-was-a-drought/#comment-78053</link>
		<dc:creator>Musicguy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Nov 2007 19:27:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.minthegap.com/2007/11/07/in-the-old-testament-it-was-a-drought/#comment-78053</guid>
		<description>Believe your scientists who are basically guessing or believe in a book of fables, pieced together over centuries with not a single original copy remaining in order to check for inaccuracies, translation errors, or any other "accidental" omissions or additions, which has been used over the centuries as a poor excuse to murder, imprison, and/or subjugate countless innocent people.

Yeah, I'll take the scientists, thank you kindly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Believe your scientists who are basically guessing or believe in a book of fables, pieced together over centuries with not a single original copy remaining in order to check for inaccuracies, translation errors, or any other &#8220;accidental&#8221; omissions or additions, which has been used over the centuries as a poor excuse to murder, imprison, and/or subjugate countless innocent people.</p>
<p>Yeah, I&#8217;ll take the scientists, thank you kindly.</p>
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		<title>By: MInTheGap</title>
		<link>http://www.minthegap.com/2007/11/07/in-the-old-testament-it-was-a-drought/#comment-78024</link>
		<dc:creator>MInTheGap</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Nov 2007 21:19:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.minthegap.com/2007/11/07/in-the-old-testament-it-was-a-drought/#comment-78024</guid>
		<description>Deba, I could argue the same thing about the Big Bang or other "scientific" theories regarding the beginning of the world.  How much has the "theory" of Evolution changed from Darwin until today?  And every time something does come up to challenge Evolution, Evolution is changed to incorporated.  To me, as a computer scientist by training, either it's true or false-- if I keep changing the question so that I can get a true, then it's not the same as the original.

I have no problem with science trying to understand the way God's universe works.  What I have it a problem with scientists pretending that they're omniscient stating that they know how the universe came about when all they can observe is that which we've seen for the past 100 years.  Even if they could produce a test that could show one thing changing into another, they would then have the logical hurdle of proving that it happened "in the wild" whereas it took us scientists to invent.

Back to my point-- it's irrational to say that you cannot have a debate over an unprovable event in history between an historic account versus scientific hypothesis.  Until, of course, there's some kind of time machine where you could go back and actually look for yourself (in which case no one would believe it still, since we can't even get everyone to believe that Islamic fundamentalists crashed airplanes into the twin towers...).

So, take your pick.  Believe your scientists who are basically guessing if you want.  (I know, oversimplification, but that's basically the scientific method-- make a hypothesis and either prove it true or false.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Deba, I could argue the same thing about the Big Bang or other &#8220;scientific&#8221; theories regarding the beginning of the world.  How much has the &#8220;theory&#8221; of Evolution changed from Darwin until today?  And every time something does come up to challenge Evolution, Evolution is changed to incorporated.  To me, as a computer scientist by training, either it&#8217;s true or false&#8211; if I keep changing the question so that I can get a true, then it&#8217;s not the same as the original.</p>
<p>I have no problem with science trying to understand the way God&#8217;s universe works.  What I have it a problem with scientists pretending that they&#8217;re omniscient stating that they know how the universe came about when all they can observe is that which we&#8217;ve seen for the past 100 years.  Even if they could produce a test that could show one thing changing into another, they would then have the logical hurdle of proving that it happened &#8220;in the wild&#8221; whereas it took us scientists to invent.</p>
<p>Back to my point&#8211; it&#8217;s irrational to say that you cannot have a debate over an unprovable event in history between an historic account versus scientific hypothesis.  Until, of course, there&#8217;s some kind of time machine where you could go back and actually look for yourself (in which case no one would believe it still, since we can&#8217;t even get everyone to believe that Islamic fundamentalists crashed airplanes into the twin towers&#8230;).</p>
<p>So, take your pick.  Believe your scientists who are basically guessing if you want.  (I know, oversimplification, but that&#8217;s basically the scientific method&#8211; make a hypothesis and either prove it true or false.)</p>
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		<title>By: Deba</title>
		<link>http://www.minthegap.com/2007/11/07/in-the-old-testament-it-was-a-drought/#comment-78010</link>
		<dc:creator>Deba</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Nov 2007 03:03:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.minthegap.com/2007/11/07/in-the-old-testament-it-was-a-drought/#comment-78010</guid>
		<description>Musicguy, how can there be substance to a debate within which one side has an utterly insubstantial premise?  The existence of the divine and his/her intrusion into the natural order of the universe is utterly unverifiable, and equally unfalsifiable.  Thus, the supposed "debate" cannot have substance.  

And, of course, the fundamentalist, creationist side of the ... erm... discussion cannot and will not acknowledge that science is about the task of understanding the universe and its workings, since that would implicitly deny the hand of the divine in day to day events.

These sorts of discussions are futile.  We should just let them continue to pray for rain and ignore reality, because that is what they are going to do regardless of any appeal to intellect or knowledge. ( I know... I was one of them for a lot of years.  Then I learned to actually THINK about what I read.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Musicguy, how can there be substance to a debate within which one side has an utterly insubstantial premise?  The existence of the divine and his/her intrusion into the natural order of the universe is utterly unverifiable, and equally unfalsifiable.  Thus, the supposed &#8220;debate&#8221; cannot have substance.  </p>
<p>And, of course, the fundamentalist, creationist side of the &#8230; erm&#8230; discussion cannot and will not acknowledge that science is about the task of understanding the universe and its workings, since that would implicitly deny the hand of the divine in day to day events.</p>
<p>These sorts of discussions are futile.  We should just let them continue to pray for rain and ignore reality, because that is what they are going to do regardless of any appeal to intellect or knowledge. ( I know&#8230; I was one of them for a lot of years.  Then I learned to actually THINK about what I read.)</p>
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