Comments on: Raising Responsible Kids http://www.minthegap.com/2007/02/01/raising-responsible-kids/ Standing in the Gap in a Society that's Warring with God. Wed, 25 Jan 2012 19:17:43 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: MInTheGap http://www.minthegap.com/2007/02/01/raising-responsible-kids/comment-page-1/#comment-47574 MInTheGap Mon, 05 Feb 2007 19:01:35 +0000 http://www.minthegap.com/2007/02/01/raising-responsible-kids/#comment-47574 Interesting, Rebecca. There are three men from my church that work at my company and my father who is also a Christian and our church is right across the street. One of the things that I told our pastor when he came-- which was last year-- was that we should start a prayer time or something at my workplace. It's fascinating to see that we're thinking on the same page. Interesting, Rebecca. There are three men from my church that work at my company and my father who is also a Christian and our church is right across the street. One of the things that I told our pastor when he came– which was last year– was that we should start a prayer time or something at my workplace. It’s fascinating to see that we’re thinking on the same page.

]]> By: Rebecca http://www.minthegap.com/2007/02/01/raising-responsible-kids/comment-page-1/#comment-47573 Rebecca Mon, 05 Feb 2007 18:47:57 +0000 http://www.minthegap.com/2007/02/01/raising-responsible-kids/#comment-47573 Stephen ~ you make a good point about people's comfort in being in church. These days I wonder if many people don't even know anyone who is a Christian. Man ~ another outreach I think has tremendous potential is lunch-time office Bible studies. I would love to see our men's outreach done in small groups scattered through-out the city, rather than another evening out at church away from the family. Unfortunately, nobody asks me. Stephen ~ you make a good point about people’s comfort in being in church. These days I wonder if many people don’t even know anyone who is a Christian.

Man ~ another outreach I think has tremendous potential is lunch-time office Bible studies. I would love to see our men’s outreach done in small groups scattered through-out the city, rather than another evening out at church away from the family.

Unfortunately, nobody asks me.

]]> By: MInTheGap http://www.minthegap.com/2007/02/01/raising-responsible-kids/comment-page-1/#comment-47568 MInTheGap Mon, 05 Feb 2007 18:22:08 +0000 http://www.minthegap.com/2007/02/01/raising-responsible-kids/#comment-47568 For some time now I've been convinced that if we are going to reach our culture we have to do more to meet them where they are instead of expecting them to come to us. I'm not saying that it didn't happen in the New Testament times, but all the examples of sharing the Gospel in Acts seems to be a whole lot more about people going into places with the good news rather than people going out and inviting people back to their groups. It seems like the evangelistic work was done external and the edification work was done internal. So, for the past few years, I've pushed Good News Clubs instead of VBS, and wanted to start Home Evangelistic Bible Studies. Seems to me we need a better job of reaching out instead of hoping people will come in and hear. For some time now I’ve been convinced that if we are going to reach our culture we have to do more to meet them where they are instead of expecting them to come to us.

I’m not saying that it didn’t happen in the New Testament times, but all the examples of sharing the Gospel in Acts seems to be a whole lot more about people going into places with the good news rather than people going out and inviting people back to their groups. It seems like the evangelistic work was done external and the edification work was done internal.

So, for the past few years, I’ve pushed Good News Clubs instead of VBS, and wanted to start Home Evangelistic Bible Studies. Seems to me we need a better job of reaching out instead of hoping people will come in and hear.

]]> By: Stephen Kingston http://www.minthegap.com/2007/02/01/raising-responsible-kids/comment-page-1/#comment-47070 Stephen Kingston Sun, 04 Feb 2007 21:36:08 +0000 http://www.minthegap.com/2007/02/01/raising-responsible-kids/#comment-47070 Cliques clearly needs to be avoided. I think the "invite people to church" method of evangelism only really works if the people being invited are comfortable with the Church culture. In the past, when society was more religious, people who were not Christians would be comfortable in coming into church buildings, where they could hear the gospel. Now, if we want non Christians to come into church, we need to consider how our church culture differs from the world culture. But once in a church, there can be no better place to hear the gospel. Youth groups can bridge the gap to some extent by offering a safe environment in which other young people can get used to Christian young people and the things they choose to do. Cliques clearly needs to be avoided. I think the “invite people to church” method of evangelism only really works if the people being invited are comfortable with the Church culture. In the past, when society was more religious, people who were not Christians would be comfortable in coming into church buildings, where they could hear the gospel. Now, if we want non Christians to come into church, we need to consider how our church culture differs from the world culture.

But once in a church, there can be no better place to hear the gospel.

Youth groups can bridge the gap to some extent by offering a safe environment in which other young people can get used to Christian young people and the things they choose to do.

]]> By: Rebecca http://www.minthegap.com/2007/02/01/raising-responsible-kids/comment-page-1/#comment-46538 Rebecca Sat, 03 Feb 2007 17:41:13 +0000 http://www.minthegap.com/2007/02/01/raising-responsible-kids/#comment-46538 Well, we have seen that model work, on at least one occasion, in our church, although clearly it works better with younger children (such as in Awana). Most of our teens are either homeschooled or attend Christian schools, there is very little evangelistic inviting that happens. Another model would be to teach the kids to bring the gospel message to those outside the church themselves. (I actually am beginning to question the "invite people to church" method of evangelism for all of us.) Unfortunately, what many people would in terms of truth in the lives of the kids might be overshadowed by cliqueish-ness, a problem I believe develops, at least in part, from a sincere desire of the parents to have their kids in a "nice group of Christian friends". I agree that evangelism is a positive aim for a youth group. Or any group, for that matter. Well, we have seen that model work, on at least one occasion, in our church, although clearly it works better with younger children (such as in Awana). Most of our teens are either homeschooled or attend Christian schools, there is very little evangelistic inviting that happens.

Another model would be to teach the kids to bring the gospel message to those outside the church themselves. (I actually am beginning to question the “invite people to church” method of evangelism for all of us.)

Unfortunately, what many people would in terms of truth in the lives of the kids might be overshadowed by cliqueish-ness, a problem I believe develops, at least in part, from a sincere desire of the parents to have their kids in a “nice group of Christian friends”.

I agree that evangelism is a positive aim for a youth group. Or any group, for that matter.

]]> By: Stephen Kingston http://www.minthegap.com/2007/02/01/raising-responsible-kids/comment-page-1/#comment-46435 Stephen Kingston Sat, 03 Feb 2007 09:57:04 +0000 http://www.minthegap.com/2007/02/01/raising-responsible-kids/#comment-46435 It is especially suited for evangelism amongst other young people, because the young people can be encouraged to invite their non Christian friends, thus bringing them to a place where they can hear the gospel message and see the truth of the gospel in the lives of the other youth in the group. Not all youth groups do this - but it should be an aim of the group I think. It is especially suited for evangelism amongst other young people, because the young people can be encouraged to invite their non Christian friends, thus bringing them to a place where they can hear the gospel message and see the truth of the gospel in the lives of the other youth in the group.

Not all youth groups do this – but it should be an aim of the group I think.

]]> By: Rebecca http://www.minthegap.com/2007/02/01/raising-responsible-kids/comment-page-1/#comment-46039 Rebecca Fri, 02 Feb 2007 23:12:26 +0000 http://www.minthegap.com/2007/02/01/raising-responsible-kids/#comment-46039 Thanks, Stephen, for your calm and level-headed response. I agree. Except, how is it that a youth group is especially suited to evangelism? Thanks, Stephen, for your calm and level-headed response. I agree. Except, how is it that a youth group is especially suited to evangelism?

]]> By: Stephen Kingston http://www.minthegap.com/2007/02/01/raising-responsible-kids/comment-page-1/#comment-45972 Stephen Kingston Fri, 02 Feb 2007 21:56:54 +0000 http://www.minthegap.com/2007/02/01/raising-responsible-kids/#comment-45972 Rebecca, I don't think it is wrong to have a youth group - particularly as it can give the young people a group through which they can conduct evangelism. The danger is that this group becomes divorced from the life of the Church, and that we think that becaise we have a youth work that we are catering for our young people. Rebecca, I don’t think it is wrong to have a youth group – particularly as it can give the young people a group through which they can conduct evangelism. The danger is that this group becomes divorced from the life of the Church, and that we think that becaise we have a youth work that we are catering for our young people.

]]> By: Rebecca http://www.minthegap.com/2007/02/01/raising-responsible-kids/comment-page-1/#comment-45849 Rebecca Fri, 02 Feb 2007 17:08:03 +0000 http://www.minthegap.com/2007/02/01/raising-responsible-kids/#comment-45849 Stephen, your point about the youth culture is exactly what is keeping me awake at nights these days. I am beginning to ask the question, "why is youth work important?" or maybe the better question would be, "why have a youth group?" It seems the excuse is often "because the parents aren't training the kids". Well, if a husband wasn't doing his job in the home, when would we ever counsel the wife to jump in and do it for him? Never, of course! So why should the church be attempting to disciple the youth (and failing very badly at it, I might add)? Mary, it is particularly troubling to me to see the church extending youth on up through early adulthood. Our church has a separate "college and career" Sunday School, taught by the pastor; the young adults are NEVER seen mixing with any other age group. Sure the youth group went and Christmas caroled at the homes of widows. But what we really want is LIFE together, not just an isolated event. Why have a High School ski trip? Why not a family ski trip? Why have separate game nights for junior high, young marrieds, and 0ver 55s? Why not have game nights where we all play together? Uh, I'll get off my soapbox now. ... And head over to Stephen's blog. :) Stephen, your point about the youth culture is exactly what is keeping me awake at nights these days. I am beginning to ask the question, “why is youth work important?” or maybe the better question would be, “why have a youth group?”

It seems the excuse is often “because the parents aren’t training the kids”. Well, if a husband wasn’t doing his job in the home, when would we ever counsel the wife to jump in and do it for him? Never, of course! So why should the church be attempting to disciple the youth (and failing very badly at it, I might add)?

Mary, it is particularly troubling to me to see the church extending youth on up through early adulthood. Our church has a separate “college and career” Sunday School, taught by the pastor; the young adults are NEVER seen mixing with any other age group.

Sure the youth group went and Christmas caroled at the homes of widows. But what we really want is LIFE together, not just an isolated event.

Why have a High School ski trip? Why not a family ski trip?

Why have separate game nights for junior high, young marrieds, and 0ver 55s? Why not have game nights where we all play together?

Uh, I’ll get off my soapbox now. … And head over to Stephen’s blog. :)

]]> By: Mary http://www.minthegap.com/2007/02/01/raising-responsible-kids/comment-page-1/#comment-45809 Mary Fri, 02 Feb 2007 14:08:46 +0000 http://www.minthegap.com/2007/02/01/raising-responsible-kids/#comment-45809 Stephen, thank you for the great comment, I, too, was thinking, ooh, this would make a great post! Glad you're going to take it further at your blog... I agree, children do need playtime...in fact, I think I sometimes let mine have entirely too much play time. It's something I've been mulling over, for sure. I like the fact that having girls means that any time they spend playing babies or "house" or baking cookies is constructive playtime that prepares them for motherhood and homemaking. When I made the comment I did: "we reinforce this wrong attitude by encouraging our children to enjoy childhood"...I should have thought of a better way to phrase it. Excellent point about the "youth culture"...I've seen this play out time and again in our church, and among our friends. It made homeschooling so attractive to us, because most of the homeschooled children we knew were mature on many levels, able to relate with all age groups, not just their peers. Our former pastor was so involved with our youth group and really pushed the dads to get involved, vs relying on a young hip youth pastor. Sadly, it didn't go over well with kids that just want to escape mom and dad's eagle eye. I have to say though, our current youth pastor and his wife are wonderful and doing a great job, though youth groups do always seem to be their own little entity. I wish you'd blog ideas about incorporating them more into the church. I liked the fundraising one...our youth group has done the "slave for a day" where they sign up to work for donations to raise money for their mission trips, etc. Again, thank you for getting my wheels turning, this is a great conversation. Mary Stephen, thank you for the great comment, I, too, was thinking, ooh, this would make a great post! Glad you’re going to take it further at your blog…

I agree, children do need playtime…in fact, I think I sometimes let mine have entirely too much play time. It’s something I’ve been mulling over, for sure. I like the fact that having girls means that any time they spend playing babies or “house” or baking cookies is constructive playtime that prepares them for motherhood and homemaking. When I made the comment I did: “we reinforce this wrong attitude by encouraging our children to enjoy childhood”…I should have thought of a better way to phrase it.

Excellent point about the “youth culture”…I’ve seen this play out time and again in our church, and among our friends. It made homeschooling so attractive to us, because most of the homeschooled children we knew were mature on many levels, able to relate with all age groups, not just their peers. Our former pastor was so involved with our youth group and really pushed the dads to get involved, vs relying on a young hip youth pastor. Sadly, it didn’t go over well with kids that just want to escape mom and dad’s eagle eye. I have to say though, our current youth pastor and his wife are wonderful and doing a great job, though youth groups do always seem to be their own little entity. I wish you’d blog ideas about incorporating them more into the church. I liked the fundraising one…our youth group has done the “slave for a day” where they sign up to work for donations to raise money for their mission trips, etc.

Again, thank you for getting my wheels turning, this is a great conversation.

Mary

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