I don’t claim to be able to judge motives of people, especially women, I do know that being a pastor is more than being a leader, it’s a position of recognition and honor. Like you said, if the Bible’s clear about who’s supposed to be there, then why are the women there?

Personally I don’t care whether I can speak in church or not… And if the Bible (the reason I even go to church in the first place!) thinks I should not, then all the more reason not to. :dizzy: Or am I missing something?

I find it very STRANGE that there are women who want to be ministers when the VERY BOOK that governs all of Christianity says that they shouldn’t do that!

That’s like somebody who claims to believe and law and order, who yet think they should be entitled to commit bank robbery.

I am a very new Christian, so maybe my opionion does not count for much. But why do so many women have a problem with it!?

Mary,

I want to wear a head covering too, for the same reason as your cousin. I don’t think it is mandated, (see the post MIn did on head covering for my opinion on it.), but I do see how it could help me personally. To serve as a reminder. (Plus I feel quite uncomfortable praying especially in public without one.)

I keep praying that the Lord would make me more meek and gentle and submitted. I am looking for His changes within me! I try my best to do what I can too!

Mrs. Meg Logan

Anyway, one of the chapters in my book talked about how hard it is for a guy to be a spiritual leader when the woman has a better spiritual education. And it’s true. Men tend to be 90% ego 10% hungry and they want to be the best, competitive, etc, so it takes a lot for a man to want to lead in a place that he feels weaker. He may also get all practical on you and say something like “well you know it better, so you should leave.” It’s a great excuse!

In any case, I don’t believe women could have taken this leadership away had they not allowed it to happen, and I think you’re right in bringing up the Eve parallel. It was the first time that Adam chose to do something not because he desired the fruit, but because his wife gave it to him and he did eat.

I believe it’s Solomon in the Proverbs that says there’s something about a man with a maid. The effect you women have as a submissive wife is tremendous– stronger than the professional wife I believe. And you can really effect your family tremendously by what you invest in your husband.

“not every church has what the Corinthian church has in it: a man who was having relations with his mother”

Well that may be true, but many churches have this same SORT of problem, and this is a directive on how to handle it any time it comes up. SO I still say it isn’t specific to that church. It is specific to that SORT of situation. It still isn’t a cultural thing.

And Mary, while I agree that men seem to be passive and that women “step up” to fill in where they leave off, I think that this is actually a problem that surfaced during and after the Women’s Lib movement. When women rebelled, they decided to say not only that they were equal to men, but that they could do anything a man could and do it better. They USURPED authority from men to begin with. Now, should men stand up and take it back… yeah I tend to think so, but many men do not do this, and the ones that do are labelled “controlling” and “abusive” and “demanding”. You are right that women need to stop stepping in. I have had to learn this myself in my marraige. But it isn’t entirely men’s fault that they do not attend church. This whole thing started with the usurping of authority by women in rebellion against men.

Peace

Mrs. Meg Logan

My thinking, is if fewer women stepped forward, more men would. Out of necessity. Yet, women are more comfortable in the role of nurturer/teacher (children’s SS, VBS), and we want to help. Our assertiveness and intellectualism about the Bible intimidate the men. So we get impatient and jump in with both feet, and “do it ourselves”.

If you think you are detecting some bitterness in my above comments, that isn’t so. I’m thinking out loud here…and I know it’s a full circle…back to Monday’s post about powerful women yielding weak men.

My dad (a pastor) has always been burdened for the men, because they don’t show up. 99 times out of a 100, it was the church shopping wife calling our parsonage asking questions about our church doctrine and kid programs…not the husband. At my grandparent’s church, the congregation was made up mostly of “Sunday widows” and children…with a few overworked male deacons on the side. Dad likes to focus on Paterology, whereas most churches zoom in on Christology or the power of the Holy Spirit. Paterology appeals to men, because it’s about God the Father.

Another aspect, is many churches don’t try hard enough to get the men involved. Our church promotes this often, by having different men take turns leading the announcement time (which is accompanied by a mini-devotion to prepare everyone for the singing), at our Awana we have as many men helping as women. Our elders are all men, but there are women on the Spiritual Life Committee. (I should inject that my dad is retiring from the ministry and we are at different churches due to geography).

Men need to feel needed, and they need to be encouraged not corrected. Women need to be patient, and available…and do more listening/praying than talking.