Under this law no man could ever wear a hat because we are also called to pray without ceasing.

I suggest that God is not in the business of making arbitrary rules. Even the Sabbath had a reason and a purpose: to remind the Hebrews that God made the world in 6 days and on the 7th day He rested.

The whole idea eludes to this misconception: That we can please God by something we either do or do not do. This idea is false for “A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit.”

Are you a good tree or a bad tree?

I’m a bad tree, fit to be cut down and thrown into the fire.

Christ is THE good tree and it is only through Him that we bear any fruit.

We are the branches and He is the vine. There is nothing we can DO to please God, Jesus already did it. Remember the command Jesus gave, what He called us to? Jesus gave us a simple definition of what it means to do the work of God:

John 6:28-29

Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?” Jesus answered, “The workd of God is this: to believe inn the one he has sent.”

The sacrifice of Christ and our restoration to God is not just about our security in Heaven, it is about our whole spiritual walk on earth as well. All scripture must be interpreted in the context of Christ. Yes, the epistles correct us in our errant thinking about Church, but they are not meant to create new commandments and laws. Jesus fulfilled the Law and gave the ultimate command: Love the Lord your God with all your heart.

Again, if one wears a covering on their head while praying, let them do so unto the Lord and be thankful, and if one wears no covering on their head while praying, let them do so also unto the Lord and be thankful. As for my part, I pray that I may never look down my nose at those who wear the covering or those who do not, whether men or women.

In other words, I suppose if I believed it was God’s will for me to pray without a baseball cap on, I’d remove it. But I cannot believe that because it goes against my understanding of scriptures, and the shape and focus of my relationship with God through Christ.

Let me say this about legalism. You bring up a good litmus test. I too thought this way but in the greater context of the scriptures I’ve become convinced that it is not by keeping the Laws or rules that we please God, it is by loving Him. It is not by our good behavior that we please Him, it is by our good faith. The Law was not designed with the intention that people should strive to fulfill it. It was designed with the intention that people should realize their imperfections and their need for a perfect Savior.

The Law describes what a perfect person would be like if such a person could exist post-fall. Such a person cannot exist according to the scriptures (Rom 3:10). The idea is not that we focus our lives on striving to achieve behavior fulfilling the law. To focus on this is folly, and, in fact, it was the main driving point of the Pharisees and Saducees in the time of Christ. Furthermore, it was Jesus’ main qualm with the Pharisees and teachers of the law. They were focused on themselves by focusing on their outward behavior instead of being focused on God.

Jesus did not come into the world to teach us of the blessings of those who fulfill the law and keep the commandments, but he came to teach us the blessings of those who are forgiven for their iniquities.

God looks upon the heart. We cannot change our heart by any matter of our own will. Only God can change our heart. And He HAS! He did the work on the Cross at Calvary. All that remains is to accept this in faith and go on growing in faith which produces good fruit.

We should all be careful that we don’t seek out fruit we don’t have the faith for. But seek out faith and the fruit will follow. Remember that you ARE the righteousness of God in Christ. But do you really know what that means? Meditate upon that and seek a stronger faith in that and you will find that the joy of God floods your soul to such an overflowing state that your sinful practices will fall away gently as if an afterthought.

Remember it’s all about love, not ‘did I do this and avoid doing that?’

For it is written, “First wash the inside of the dish and then the outside will be clean also.”

The inside is your soul (mind and emotions) and the outside is your works (body, actions.)

Renew your mind and the rest will follow.

(This is fun… if I could just get over the fear of being though arogant by those who read this… one of my biggest struggles of faith.)

And how do I change my avatar?

I guess, I still like to take Paul literally when he says “EVERY man praying with his head covered disgraces his head.”…

I think it does apply to hats and doo rags. I think that even though we are free to come boldly before His throne, we are still admonished to “fear the lord” and to have signs of respect. Therefore, if any man is praying with his head covered, and this is considered disrespectful, then I would think they should NOT do so. Does their salvation depend on it? Absolutely not. But shall we continue in living unholy lives so that grace may abound? Of course not!

Guess it can come down to the issue of “legalism”. Here is where I think many people are confused. Legalism is not saying we should follow all the rules, it is saying “if you don’t follow the rules your salvation is in jeopardy.” or “If you aren’t following His commandments, then you must not be saved.”

It is OK to follow His commandments, in fact He tells us that those who love Him will do so. Therefore if you love Him and read that He thinks it disrespectful for a man to come before Him in prayer with head covered, then you won’t do that, and if you are a woman and love Him and know that He desires a woman’s head to be covered, then out of love for Him you will do so. But I am not about to say to my weaker brother or sister in Christ that their salvation depends on such obedience and reverence. It does not, and cannot, for it is not of us, but of God alone that we are made righteous and saved.

Love you too brother!

Meg
(ps. this is fun! wish you showed up here more often!)

My reference to Romans was to Pauls lengthy discourse on our relationship with God being based on His righteousness not our own works. Romans mostly deals within the context of salvation by grace through faith, and therefore is not necessarily the best piece of scripture to make my point.

Your final point is precisely correct. It’s our heart attitudes which affect our prayers’ potency. For it is also written, “If you believe, you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer.” - Matt 21:22

We of course balance this with the passage you are quoting which reminds us that if we pray against the Father’s will, we will not receive it. Also reference the ‘Our Father’ prayer which states, “Thy will be done”

Anyway, a whole new thread could be started to discuss hindrances to prayer etc.

Let me also address the male head covering thing as I understand it. Clearly we were liberated from covering our heads in the presence of the Lord when Jesus fulfilled the Law, but I would encourage people to understand that the disgrace in a man covering his head is not another commandment to be followed but it deals with a heart condition.

Do you still feel unworthy to stand in the presence of the Father? Even when He has sent His only Son to die in your place and cleanse you of your stains? Take faith! For you need not be covered and hide from the Lord as Adam did in the garden of Eden! You are fully reconciled if you believe in the one He has sent!

In other words, Paul wasn’t talking about baseball caps and do-rags. Removing your hat in Church is not a sign of reverence or respect, except before the eyes of men. If you’re not wearing the covering because you believe you are spiritually unfit to be in the presence of the Most High God, then you are in no way disgracing the Son or His finished work on the Cross.

For those who struggle with worthiness, remember this: Upon believing you have received the Holy Spirit which is a down payment, a seal, guaranteeing your salvation in the day of Christ! Ohh, you are worthy, as worthy as Christ!

Love,
Art

I definitely agree that women should not be bound by law to cover. I certainly do not feel that were I to do so myself, it would be because my prayers were ineffective otherwise, or that I would somehow incur the wrath of God for some disobedience.

I know you are already familiar with the passages which specifically address circumcision and that this was “tongue in cheek” but, it isn’t exactly the same, you see on the one hand, circumcision was required of the Jews as a sign of righteousness and being set apart from God, and people WERE trying to set a yoke upon others. But covering your head is NOT a requirement in the OT, infact, MEN covered and women did not have to. It was done for very different reasons in the OT.

Men covered to show that they were unworthy to come before the Lord, and Jewish men always wore a mantle, a tzitzit with which they covered their head anytime they entered into prayer. Women sometimes wore a veil, but they were not commanded to do so, as they were covered under their husband’s mantle.

It is in my limited understanding that once the veil covering the holy of holies was rent (on the occasion of Christ’s death), the men were allowed to come before the Lord uncovered. They are now allowed to come before Christ in glory. To come before Him covered as a man, would dishonor Him because it would mock what He did for us. However, the woman now ought to cover her head lest she dishonors her HUSBAND, not the Lord. Because her hair is considered HER glory, and so she is to cover it to show that she is in submission to her head (which is her husband or her father).

I do not understand that part about angels, it is a great mystery, one noone seems to understand. But I would not want to offend an angel, and if it was important enough to mention in the Word, then it is important enough for me to consider, even if I do not comprehend. I do recall that there is another passage elsewhere which talks about how we might entertain angels unawares and that we ought to be hospitable so that we do not offend them. Apparently it is important not to cause them to stumble… is it possible that seeing my glory all out and flashy would cause one to stumble? I do not know….

You ask if our prayers can be hindered or empowered by our actions, and I have to argue that YES they absolutely can. I’m not sure where you are referring to in Romans, or if you are in disagreement or not. I can think of at least two times when prayers are deemed less powerful when the behavior of the pray-er is in error.

Husband’s prayers can be hindered if they do not treat their wives rightly.

“Likewise, ye husbands, dwell with [them] according to knowledge, giving honour unto the wife, as unto the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life; that your prayers be not hindered.” 1 Peter 3:7

and

Anyone’s prayer’s can be hindered if they are asking with a wrong heart attitude, for selfish gain or vain conceit.
(can’t find this one, sorry… but it goes “you ask and recieve not because you do not ask rightly but for selfish gain or evil conceit.”)

Well, anyway.

Just a few thoughts.

Mrs. Meg Logan

Let me first answer my sister:

1. Good reason.

2. Are our prayers more or less powerful depending upon how ‘in God’s will’ we are through our actions? (I’d reference you to the book of Romans to meditate upon the value of our actions pertaining to our relationship with God or our spiritual power.)

3. I can’t comment on this one because I myself do not understand the context of the mention of angels here.

4. This is your best reason.

Now, let me say this:

What is right is defined by the law. But if we pretend to do what is right we fool ourselves and lie to God and to our neighbors. Remember that righteousness does not come by living by the Law, rather righteousness comes by faith in He who is righteousness. If a woman wears a covering, then let her do so unto her Lord, if she does not wear a covering, let her not do so unto the Lord. For man looks at the outward appearances but the Almighty looks at the inside of men and judges righteously.

I tell you that you should not seek to require a woman to wear a covering. This is the same as requiring your sister to fulfill the Law. But let’s not add to our brothers and sisters a yoke that our fathers were unable to bear!

Is it possible to be spiritually edified in a church that has such requirements? Certainly! With God all things are possible. Hesitantly however, I do not recommend such a course or action. (I’ve had good results recommending that the flock stay away from the yeast in the past.)

We are not justified by the works of the Law but by the shed blood of Christ. It may sound elementary to harp on the blood, but Christ is the foundation of all the good we do in this world. The more you meditate on the righteousness of God and your place in Him through faith alone the more you will be capable of good works.

I wonder if the next discussion should be on whether men should be circumcised. Or is there a difference between old testament law and new testament commandments? Have you ever asked that question of yourselves?

It’s ok, I know I’m going to Heaven, I happen to be circumcised. Too bad for the rest of you. You better stay out of our church if your are uncircumcised because it’s clearly an area of rebellion in your life!

OK, so that was a little overkill on the tongue-in-cheek, but I think the point is that important as to be that ridiculous.

Love,
Art

You asked “Could it be because they are more keenly aware of the Holy Spirit and would feel more liberty with their head covered?”

I have prayed with my head covered and uncovered. I will attest that I certainly feel more power and ease when I am covered, especially in public (though my actual experience in that realm is limited). I do not wear a covering all the time, though I would if it would please my husband. I think covering all the time is the easiest answer as opposed to only when in the act of praying, because I at least do not know when I might engage in prayer… it is usually every five minutes LOL.

Here are three reasons I think covering is a good thing:

1. It covers my glory (I have plenty of very long hair which draws attention, especially male attention) I would enjoy covering it to hide that glory for my husband alone.

2. I feel more at ease to pray when covered, and feel that my prayers are more powerful when I do so.

3. There is some mystery about the angels in this passage… I would like to have them on my side as much as possible, so whatever the angels have to do with this, I would like to do it for them.

Oh and a bonus reason:
4. It is a good testimony and conversation starter (from what I hear).

Mrs. Meg Logan

Good points as far as the men’s long hair and the hat.